J van E

Majestic Q400: full simulation?

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I am having a lot of fun with the Q400 in Aerofly FS 2. I am having so much fun that I am even considering to get the Majestic Q400 for P3D 4.1. Now the Aerofly version offers enough to keep me entertained but I have the feeling it is even nicer to have EVERYTHING working. Not that I might use everything all the time but somehow the idea that absolutely every knob and switch works is nice. I also like the idea because compared to some other planes the Q400 is not a utterly complicated plane, it seems to me. When I look at the overhead I get the idea I know what every knob is for already, while when I look at the overhead of an Airbus, which I have flown a lot, I still don’t know what everything does. In other words: it seems to me that it is actually possible to get to grips with its system completely and actually use everything if I want to.

Anyway, what I would like to know is if the Majestic Q400 simulates really EVERYTHING or not. Is it on the same level as FSLabs? I know I’d probably have to at least get the Pro version: the most expensive version is a bit over the top, I think...? I am not really interested in failures but the basic version does lack some realistic features.

Obviously the Q400 in Aerofly looks totally awesome with its real time lighting system but I think the Majestic one looks okay too. I will miss VR and the photoreal scenery and the superb performance of AFS2 but in a plane like this I am probably too busy doing my job anyway. All in all it just seems nice to have a bit more complicated plane that I can actually learn to control a 100%.

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Yes The pro version is like FSL A320. You need to decide to put some time into you sim and enjoy learning a q400 or not. 

I've not installed it into v4 but its an amazing aircraft and everyone one says the performance is the very best, very light on FPS. 

One word of warning I read on chaseplane that it does not like outside views.

 

 

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Until FS Labs A320 came out, Majestic Q400 was definitely the best and most immersive airliner on P3D platform. Have all PMDG aircrafts and imho Majestic Q400 and FS Labs A320 are 1 level above PMDG in terms of immersion.

Must have buy 

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So everything as is absolutely everything? ;) I already had a look at the site and in the meantime I also read some reviews (obviously) and so I know what most Pro options do. However, I am not certain about a few:

- FMS ETP/PNR

- Alternate gear extension

- System control application

- FMS ARINC weather

What’s the use of these?

The others I understand. I have to say the only ones that interest me are the HUD and TCS. 

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3 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Yes The pro version is like FSL A320.

 

Nice! I was hoping to hear this. ;)

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12 minutes ago, J van E said:

Nice! I was hoping to hear this. ;)

Really? then why dont you buy the FSL and see the light :biggrin:

Today I had a full pump play up on engine 2 start, I had to follow the EMAC instruction and I/it sorted it out. That aircraft is the A2A of airlines. Its alive living thing that does talk to you :laugh:  Its a funny feeling as your starting an engine and get a master warning go off , I love it :biggrin:

The Q400 is also amazing, sadly I just don't like the aircraft :blush: If you buy it get the PRO version. 

Joking aside buy the pro version get a taste of a full simulation of a bigger aircraft than your GA's then you might rethink where you go from there? 

TIP: Dont cut the throttles until you touch down. Really! yes really:biggrin:

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23 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Really? then why dont you buy the FSL and see the light :biggrin:

Too expensive. Too big. Too complicated. To heavy on performance. For starters. :happy: For my kind of flying the Q400 seems a good fit. Not expensive. Not too big (suited for short flights). A system that I can grasp and use completely (at least as far as knobs and switches are concerned). Easy on performance (compared to the PMDG’s and FSLabs). 

25 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

TIP: Dont cut the throttles until you touch down. Really! yes really:biggrin:

I know! I have already flown the Q400 in Aerofly FS 2. :happy: And even though systems are limited in AFS2 it is a very, very nice version, also considering it is a free ‘default’ plane! (In fact, I think it is the best default plane of all sims out there.) Anyway, yes, I know not to pull power below FLT IDLE before touchdown. Really. :happy:

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J, this is a great tutorial by Ebs old and not the pro version as it was not out then but well worth a watch

 

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I have the Pro version and love it.  Everything functions and for icing on the cake, you get icing on the aircraft too.  :biggrin:  You definitely have to fly it to the runway.  I have a very modest system and the frame rates are just fine.

 

Bill

No problems here with ChasePlane and the Dash 8.

Edited by Bill Griffith
Addition.

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Oleksiy (owner and programmer for Majestic) will be speaking about and showing the Dash 8 Q400 Pro and Training versions next Saturday on the 2017 Flight Sim Web Conference (see AVSIM front page news).  You will be able to ask him (and the other guest developers) questions via text or voice should you wish.

That said, the Q400 is arguably one of the two best simulators ever produced for desktop flight simulation (the other is the Leonardo Maddog). Difficult to place one over the over as they are two entirely different types of aircraft and different types of flying.  Not saying other devs don't have excellent models, they certainly do, but Majestic and Leonardo just took things a few more steps.  The Majestic Dash 8 is the only aircraft in flight sim that uses an external flight dynamics engine, allowing her to fly more closely to an actual aircraft that what we experience with other models.

Each level of the Majestic Dash 8 increases with systems immersion. The Professional version is by far the most completely modeled Dash 8 I've ever seen, except of course the Training version of the Dash (which as a coincidence I'm getting ready to take up in Shared Cockpit in a few minutes... you can watch that stream at https://gaming.youtube.com/c/OnlineVirtualPilotsAssociation in about 10 minutes from my posting this (1925 UTC/GMT).

The comparison between the three versions on the Majestic Website is accurate.

 

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

If you buy it get the PRO version.

I agree get this one directly.

This w-e, I acquired and fly with aerofly software for the first time. When you flight from Cold and Dark on p3dv4.1 and enter in a full automated aircraft "ready to fly" as aerofly do, you have the feeling to fly in a ai aircraft.

Aerofly to look amazing photorealterrains is well but I stay little dispite by the very basic level of Aircrafts. They are graphicaly perfect but most of avionics don't work.

Then the step from dash8 aerofly to majestic one shall perhaps be hard... but the documentation (and videos on flight one store) are well complete.

Have fun with this wonderfull and pleasant commuter.

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1 hour ago, J van E said:

- FMS ETP/PNR
Equal Time Point/Point of No Return - Just google it and you will understand both concepts.

- Alternate gear extension
As the name suggests, if the gear doesn't extend by the "normal" way (due to a failure) you have the alternate way (manually extend).

- System control application
IDK

- FMS ARINC weather
You can querry a weather report (METAR) via FMS.
 

 

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

So everything as is absolutely everything? ;) I already had a look at the site and in the meantime I also read some reviews (obviously) and so I know what most Pro options do. However, I am not certain about a few:

- FMS ETP/PNR

- Alternate gear extension

- System control application

- FMS ARINC weather

What’s the use of these?

The others I understand. I have to say the only ones that interest me are the HUD and TCS. 

FMS ETP/PNR. This is the inclusion of the Equal Time Point and Point of No Return calculations on the flight management computer system. These are functions which allow one to determine whether you have enough fuel to get to your destination when there are fewer ground-based navaids available or GPS coverage is limited, or whether it makes sense to turn around and go back, for example if there is something faulty on the aeroplane (which is a definite possibility on the Majestic Dash 8, since it can simulate all kinds of faults if you like). Whether that is something which would occur on actual operations is another matter, as it will depend on the ETOPS rules too, and whether your airline follows them etc, or in the case of the military, not lol, since they are exempt from ETOPS.

What it boils down to is that, in an aeroplane, the point of no return is a bit more complicated than simply a dot on a map and saying you'd use half the fuel burn before halfway and the other half after which factors into the decision. That simple approach makes sense in a car or a truck, but not in an aeroplane, since there are things like winds, how much fuel you've use on the climb out, how much you'd use on the approach, legal reserves, and even how much fuel you'd use doing a 180 degree turn to go back to where you started, and what altitude you might have to change to in order to get more favourable fuel consumption owing to the winds. Most flight simmers are not really going to need this level of realism, but if you ever want to do an ATPL exam, it is one of the things you'll get asked about and it is a favourite of examiners and check pilots to ask the trickier stuff like that where you have to include calculations for the fuel burn on the climb out etc, so if you like realism, the feature is good to have, but it's not critical for most flight simmers.

System Control Application. This allows the failures and systems to be monitored over a network on another computer, although not all of them can be controlled/triggered on even the Pro edition (only the Hydraulics and Electrics). However, there is actually a third version of the Majestic Dash Eight Q400 besides the Pilot and Pro versions, which is the Training edition, and that one can monitor and trigger all that stuff remotely via a network. Unless you are setting up some kind of training facility where you want a procedural trainer, then it's not really of use to you as a function.

Alternate Gear Extension. As the name suggests, it is the simulation of the back up gear lowering system on the aeroplane should the normal main system fail. If you like realism and like failure simulation, you might like that, and given the fact that the Q400 is currently getting a bit of notoriety for gear failures, you probably do want that.

FMC/ARINC weather. Without actually knowing which ARINC standard they are referring to with this one, it is hard to say, since there are loads of different AIRINC standards, and some of them are in fact created by airline manufacturers and then become ARINC standards, but I'd assume it means it is using the same protocols the real aeroplane does for weather information handling and information display. Keep in mind that most FS add-ons could actually claim they met at least one ARINC standard, since some of those standards are just about where you put the avionics and what kind of shelving units you put them on and what colour the wiring is (no, I'm not joking), so if a VC had a reasonably accurate looking VC with things in more or less the right place, it could be put in the marketing blurb that it was following an ARINC standard. But having said that, I'd assume the Majestic Q400 is not merely pulling that one, since it is very realistic.

With regard to it being equal/comparable to the FSL A320, the short answer is yes, it absolutely is if you get the super-duper Pro edition. The longer answer is that it's worth bearing in mind that you could argue it is actually more realistic than the FSL A320, since the FSL A320 doesn't have every circuit breaker able to pop, nor absolutely every switch working, and the Majestic Q400 Pro version pretty much does, although how much you want all that for normal pilot operations is debatable. But it does, if nothing else, indicate a level of serious system simulation.

The reason most people say the FSL A320 is the 'most serious' FS airliner however, is not because it is streets ahead of things such as the Majestic Dash 8 or the PMDG 747 in every respect, it is because FSL managed to very accurately simulate so much of the A320's generally more complex stuff which goes on under the hood, including its alternate flight law behaviour; loads of developers had tried to do that before and failed miserably when they realised just how hard a task that was in a 32 bit home PC flight sim, and FSL had to go to quite an insane level of systems emulation in order to get that to work (which is where all the preceding attempts had fallen down, in not taking that approach). As a result, there is a very complex ecosystem going on in the background with the FSL A320, but it doesn't mean other airliners for FS are not doing as accurate a simulation of their particular airliner type, it's that they didn't need to go to that level in order to do so because they were not simulating the A320, which is basically a flying supercomputer (well, actually five flying supercomputers if you wanna be accurate lol).

Ultimately, if you want to feel that the thing you are driving in your sim is realistic, then this is what stuff such as the FSL A320, the A2A Commache and the Majestic Pro version of the Dash Eight offers you. The notion that you could break it if you did something wrong, and then you could realistically try to deal with it. So it is up to you really, but I would certainly say that the Majestic Dash Eight Pro version is the most value for money flight sim aeroplane in that regard, by quite a considerable margin.

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

I will miss VR

Q400 works great in VR in P3D v4, much smoother and more usable that any other airliner that I own. I think it's because of the external flight model, sim itself has less to do, so stutters less in in VR (particularly noticble when you look out the side windows when turning).

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25 minutes ago, mikealpha said:

I would also much recommend the Dash-8 Cadet and FO training course at http://www.airline2sim.com . Just great to learn all the bells and whistles. 

Mike

 

 

You beat me to it :cool: The Dash is really nice and will be out of my hangar over the winter. Just a priority. 

 

Thanks Michael Moe 

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

J, this is a great tutorial by Ebs old and not the pro version as it was not out then but well worth a watch

Thanks, I will certainly have a look at that one! And thanks for all the replies everyone! This indeed seems to be the plane to get for me.

EDIT I am watching the video and as he says it is a great plane for GA flyers who want something bigger. But even more interesting, and I knew this but forgot about it, is that this video takes place in Norway, my favorite location to fly, and in real life Q400 are used there so with the Q400 I can do real life flights! Nice bonus!

19 minutes ago, Chock said:

Ultimately, if you want to feel that the thing you are driving in your sim is realistic, then this is what stuff such as the FSL A320, the A2A Commache and the Majestic Pro version of the Dash Eight offers you. The notion that you could break it if you did something wrong. So it is up to you rally, but I would certainly say that the Majestic Dash Eight Pro version is the most value for money flight sim aeroplane in that regard, by quite a considerable margin.

Well, I am the kind of simmer that just wants to fly as a regular pilot would so I am not too much into setting up failures and doing odd things you usually don't do, but well, somehow I kinda like the idea that even if I do NOT use all the extra's the Pro version offers, it still is a complete simulation and that just feels nice. I probably will never ever actually use for instance the circuit breakers but it's nice to know I could if I would. And that goes for all the extra's. Flying the Aerofly Q400 is nice and I will probably use the Majestic one in a similar way (well, not really, of course, because the Aerofly version doesn't have a working FMS and I will certainly use that one!) but I already noticed the Aerofly Q400 doesn't feel complete: I simply like it when every knob and switch can actually do something if I want to. And with the Q400 I also have the idea getting everything under control is achievable, which I like: it's not too complex or 'over the top' as some big airliners are which always have things that I don't fully grasp.

48 minutes ago, mikealpha said:

I would also much recommend the Dash-8 Cadet and FO training course at http://www.airline2sim.com . Just great to learn all the bells and whistles. 

Mike

 

Looks nice but that almost doubles the costs... I'll see how far I'll get with the manuals and YouTube first. :happy: Although I did read in a review the manuals aren't the best part of this addon. I did look at an advanced tutorial from Majestic itself and it was from 2013...?:blink: I sure hope the addon comes with up to date and detailed manuals by now.

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11 minutes ago, J van E said:

Thanks, I will certainly have a look at that one! And thanks for all the replies everyone! This indeed seems to be the plane to get for me.

Well, I am the kind of simmer that just wants to fly as a regular pilot would so I am not too much into setting up failures and doing odd things you usually don't do, but well, somehow I kinda like the idea that even if I do NOT use all the extra's the Pro version offers, it still is a complete simulation and that just feels nice. I probably will never ever actually use for instance the circuit breakers but it's nice to know I could if I would. And that goes for all the extra's. Flying the Aerofly Q400 is nice and I will probably use the Majestic one in a similar way (well, not really, of course, because the Aerofly version doesn't have a working FMS and I will certainly use that one!) but I already noticed the Aerofly Q400 doesn't feel complete: I simply like it when every knob and switch can actually do something if I want to. And with the Q400 I also have the idea getting everything under control is achievable, which I like: it's not too complex or 'over the top' as some big airliners are which always have things that I don't fully grasp.

This is why a lot of people would never really be in a position to appreciate some of the stuff in more complex simulations, but may still want them anyway for the feeling it gives them. After all, does it really matter if the voltage gauge on some panel is indicating exactly 24 volts rather than 23.99 volts when passenger 57 switched on the lights in the lavatory at the back of the thing? That's kind of what goes on in the FSL A320, but then again that thing is well over a ton to buy. But in the case of the Pro version of the Majestic Q400, the price difference of that versus the Pilot version is fairly negligible, and it is way cheaper than PMDG and FSL aeroplanes (with the exception of the PMDG DC-6), so I'd say it was worth having the superior one, and you probably will think the same.

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2 minutes ago, Chock said:

the price difference of that versus the Pilot version is fairly negligible, and it is way cheaper than PMDG and FSL aeroplanes, so I'd say it was worth having the superior one, and you probably will think the same.

Yes, I do. :happy:

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As I know the OP likes VR, I'll point out that the A320 is the worst airliner for this due to overall low performance, plus a frame rate that spikes around leading to more motion sickness than you'd expect from frame rate alone. Plus the devs are literally the only people in the world of P3D who have managed to code an aircraft that is VR incompatible (due to crashes when VR is selected).

Is the FSL A320 the most complex aircraft? I'd say it's the most complex airbus, and is a tour de force in terms of deep simulation of that aircraft. You'll find a lot of people over on the FSL claiming it's the most complex, but pretty much none on the PMDG forum.

There's now a small bunch of top-level simulations of airliners, and the Q400, A320 and PMDG planes fall into this group (as did the Leonardo Maddog for FSX).

Like most of you, I've never flown a Q400, but the flight model just feels realistic. Although I don't particularly like the type, it's definitely a keeper due to the unique FDE and the great performance. Superb plane, and keenly priced for what you get.

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PNR / ETP has already been explained but one of the nifty features in q400 is that the FMS is able to not only provide information for normal ETP / PNR scenarios but also abnormal. I am talking about in case of pressurization loss or engine out scenarios. The fms will give you hard numbers for coast in /coast out airport.

Arinc weather is just a fancy name of pulling out Metars from the FMS

Overall the Universal FMS in the q400 is an extremely potent little device.

Like many here, I highly recommend it.

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A quick VR note on the CDU - unfortunately, letters are too small/quite hard to read compared with the pmdg or fsl equivalents. MCP (is it called that in the Q400?) is also hard to use because it doesn't have the numbers in front of you. 

These issues are due to the real-world aircraft design, they're not sim problems. They just limit the usability of this aircraft for me at the moment for complex flying in VR, I'm still thinking if how to work around them because this aircraft is otherwise beautiful when using the Oculus.

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i would like to add a couple of words on this - Jeroen, you won't regret q400. I am a big FSL A320 fan, and i'm flying it 99% of time. But it is heavy on resources, and i need to lower my settings. I have 2 profiles for P3Dv4, FSL and MJQ. Q400 profile is almost everything maxed out, on my old system. It is a full simulation, but Q400 is a realy much less complex aircraft compared to A320. I realy like it. 

About flight dynamics, Q400 uses external FDE, and it feels great most of time. But, don't underestimate FSL A320 becouse of this. FSL uses MSFS FDE only where FDE engine can do it right, everything else is corrected externally. 

My top airplanes right now are FSL A320(i like complexity :happy: ), Majestic Q400, and then all PMDG planes. I'm also waiting for new Leonardo Maddog, I wonder if they did some new "magic" for P3Dv4.

Anyway, i highly recommend you Q400

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Also, if you switch off the CDU/FMC/MCP....or pull the circuit breakers, then you have two radio sets. Each side (Captain and First Officer) have independently functioning nav radios. So the aircraft can be flown from either side with two radios that are connected to the autopilot!

If you leave the MCP's on, you can tune the radios from there as well.

It's an exquisite simulation. Pity she's not a pretty aircraft!:ohmy:

We will wait and see what PMDG do with the Jetstream in P3dv4......if they manage to release it? Now that's a pretty bird!:cool:

Cheers.

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