PA-24 Fatal Crash caught on traffic camera

[n4gix]

Although this crash took place last month, video footage of the final moments was just released by the Scottsdale Police.

In this case it would appear to be pilot error, as there were six adults with their luggage in that little aircraft...

http://www.azfamily.com/story/38099498/video-scottsdale-traffic-cam-captures-plane-crash-on-tpc-golf-course?autostart=true

[hs118]

ouch...sorry for the families.

[scianoir]

Always sad and shocking to see such video footage and it does seem very much like pilot error in that the aircraft was probably overloaded. However I find the brief ATC extract a little puzzling - from her question the controller has clearly noticed something wrong but it seems like the pilot was unaware of this from his almost nonchalant response and why would he say it was "a training lesson" if there were six people (RIP to all) and their baggage flying to Las Vegas? 

Bill

[Guest John_Cillis]

I vaguely remember hearing about this crash on local news but did not see the video until now.  Most certainly looks like a stall to me, what we do not know is whether there was an engine problem involved.  Always tragic to see such an accident, especially just fifteen miles from my home.

John

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

I've flown a few Comanche's - when I heard the details of the crash - my first thought - "Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."...

Regards,
Scott

[skelsey]

Agreed, Scott.

20 hours ago, n4gix said:

it would appear to be pilot error

From the information given so far, pilot "error" may be quite a generous categorisation. "Error" implies an inadvertent mistake or slip; putting six adults + luggage + fuel for a 250nm flight in a Comanche is, I might argue, unlikely to be an "error".

[BillW]

No hitting the reset button on this one. A reminder that reality is what it is......Serious business.

 

[Oracle427]

It boggles the mind to see such an "error" being committed given the amount of emphasis placed on producing a weight and balance before each and every single flight. With today's technology, it takes less than a minute to do.

As noted by Scott, failure to do it or ignore the reality can result on one paying a very high price. It is awful that all those passengers lives were taken, probably all completely unaware of the die that had been cast before they set foot in the aircraft.

I witnessed an accident several years ago where a 172S was loaded with 4 adults, a portable BBQ grill, food and full tanks. The temp that day was 37C and I had just returned in my 172 from the beach at Montauk. It was very hazy and visibility want all that great.

Density altitude was around 3000 feet at sea level.

The only reason the occupants of this aircraft survived was because they never got off the ground. The aircraft barreled down the runway and the takeoff was aborted too late causing the aircraft to crash into the perimeter fence. All escaped unhurt. The surrounding area is all residential and industrial property with essentially no spots to land in an emergency. Worse yet the pilot has been recently certificated. I don't understand, they both should have known better. It can't be ignorance...

[n4gix]

2 hours ago, skelsey said:

Agreed, Scott.

From the information given so far, pilot "error" may be quite a generous categorisation. "Error" implies an inadvertent mistake or slip; putting six adults + luggage + fuel for a 250nm flight in a Comanche is, I might argue, unlikely to be an "error".

While agree with you that "error" is likely far too generous, I didn't want to speak ill of the deceased pilot by using harsher verbiage.

As Ken Ramage said "...the six-seater Piper plane typically cannot hold the weight of six grown adults and could have thrown off the plane's center of gravity." And this without considering any of the luggage which may have added 200 to 300 lbs. of additional, improperly distributed weight.

[Bobsk8]

On 5/4/2018 at 7:01 AM, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

I've flown a few Comanche's - when I heard the details of the crash - my first thought - "Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."...

Regards,
Scott

Or Stupidity. Obviously no weight and balance was done, so the result is what you see. 

[JRBarrett]

Putting 6 adults in a Comanche (single or twin) is never a good idea. An Aztec perhaps... a Navajo definitely... but not a PA-24. 

[kdfw__]

if you want to see mainly GA accidents compiled in the U.S., this is a good site http://www.kathrynsreport.com/

so many cases where GA fliers confront IMC and go down, sometimes taking their whole family with them.  

[mabe54]

If anything, a too excessive youth concentration for a night flight. On the spur of the moment kind of thing. All flights are demanding and seriously deadly and none should be taken recreationally. 

Too bad and too needless.

Cheers,

 

[Bobsk8]

3 hours ago, mabe54 said:

If anything, a too excessive youth concentration for a night flight. On the spur of the moment kind of thing. All flights are demanding and seriously deadly and none should be taken recreationally. 

Too bad and too needless.

Cheers,

 

Many years ago in KFLL, I knew two people that went up with a brand new pilot that had just passed his check ride in a C-152 that morning.  He came down to the airport with his girlfriend and another couple wanting to rent a C 172 to take them for a ride that same evening. The FBO refused to rent him the 172 since he had never flown one, and told him to come back the next day and they would be happy to  check him out in one. He got PO'd and left. He came back after the FBO closed for the evening, jimmied the door open, got the keys to  a 172, and he and his three friends climbed in and he taxied out for takeoff. That evening their were some scattered clouds at around 1000 -1500 feet. He and his 3 victims, took off, promptly flew into one of the clouds, People on the airport next saw the 172 spinning out of the clouds  towards the ground in a nose down attitude , and all four were killed. I have no tolerance for pilots that put other people's lives in jeopardy, As far as I am concerned, that person  murdered his  passengers.  

[mabe54]

Unfortunately, they won't be the last.

Cheers,