2 hours ago, cgsmithmo said:

I'm fairly certain Atlas does a lot of contract work for the government. Ferrying military to/from overseas.

Most military personnel movements are on commercial carriers, only when there are deployment of units as in attending exercises or deploying for war does the military start using civilian passenger aircraft and those are usually part of the CRAF (Civil Reserve Air Fleet).  My understanding (and not well informed one at that) was that the only recurring passenger Atlas flight was for an oil company between Houston and Angola and that contract has terminated.  Sure there are a few Atlas flights to military locations but they are for the most part cargo.  When my unit deployed for Desert Storm, we used a lot of CRAF aircraft and they were all configured for cargo.  The troops went with the cargo... don't expect to be comfy.

Excellent work on the list - I believe that the Virgin flights between EGKK and EGPF/CC/AA are not strictly passenger flights but empty positioning flights. Presumably saves them basing crews at EGPF/AA. 

3 hours ago, rondon9898 said:

Excellent work on the list - I believe that the Virgin flights between EGKK and EGPF/CC/AA are not strictly passenger flights but empty positioning flights. Presumably saves them basing crews at EGPF/AA. 

Yes I had a feeling that was the case - I figured since they were regular they would be an option for a short hop.

13 hours ago, cgsmithmo said:

I'm fairly certain Atlas does a lot of contract work for the government. Ferrying military to/from overseas.

I tried to uncover what I could, even tracing the two passenger hulls but couldn't find anything.

Ramstein and I believe, LIRF? Ramstien for sure. I've seen both PAX and Cargo at one time or another.

Edited August 2, 20187 yr by cgsmithmo

On 8/1/2018 at 6:29 PM, rondon9898 said:

Excellent work on the list - I believe that the Virgin flights between EGKK and EGPF/CC/AA are not strictly passenger flights but empty positioning flights. Presumably saves them basing crews at EGPF/AA. 

Yes this is correct. A crew will operate back from KMCO to EGAA and then get a lift in the cabin back to EGCC or EGKK while the aircraft is flown by a fresh flight crew.

These short hops in an empty 747 are literally breathtaking with the power to weight ratio available you’re clearing over 2500ft by the end of the runway!

Jon Bunting 

11 hours ago, jon b said:

These short hops in an empty 747 are literally breathtaking with the power to weight ratio available you’re clearing over 2500ft by the end of the runway!

Thanks. This has given me an idea for a flight to check this out. I usually travel with either a random or a full load of passengers. Never thought of simulating a flight giving the crew a ride back to a home station.

19 hours ago, jon b said:

Yes this is correct. A crew will operate back from KMCO to EGAA and then get a lift in the cabin back to EGCC or EGKK while the aircraft is flown by a fresh flight crew.

These short hops in an empty 747 are literally breathtaking with the power to weight ratio available you’re clearing over 2500ft by the end of the runway!

Jon Bunting 

What so the fresh crew have nightstopped at EGAA? I’d have thought they’d be able to do 2 sectors within their flight time limitations as long as they had a relief pilot - MCO-BFS then BFS-LGW. Always willing to stand corrected though.

Atlas does in fact fly military personnel around. We flew on an Atlas 767 to Bahrain from the USA, with a few stops in between. My brother, also in the service, flew Atlas to and from Japan. He was on a 747-400

Edited August 6, 20187 yr by uhntissbaby111

A crew would take the empty plane to BFS hand it over to the long haul crew and nightstop then operate the inbound ferry the next morning. 

Technically yes, a 3 crew operation could do the 2 sectors but it would be tight with any delays so a separate ferry crew offers more resilience to keep the operation moving.

Things to think about for your ferry flight ... normally you’d use maximum de-rate TO-2 ATM 64 degrees, V1 is normally VMCG limited at 125kts. Minimum fuel required at take off ( not push back) is 22.0T and pitch is also limited to 15 degrees nose up on Climb out, this is to try and prevent uncovering the forward fuel boost pumps.

The takeoff and landing rolls will be shockingly short and climb rates nothing short of breathtaking. The power to weight ratio on an empty 747 is entering the realms of early military jet performance.Jon Bunting 

cheers

 

 

1 hour ago, jon b said:

A crew would take the empty plane to BFS hand it over to the long haul crew and nightstop then operate the inbound ferry the next morning. 

Technically yes, a 3 crew operation could do the 2 sectors but it would be tight with any delays so a separate ferry crew offers more resilience to keep the operation moving.

Things to think about for your ferry flight ... normally you’d use maximum de-rate TO-2 ATM 64 degrees, V1 is normally VMCG limited at 125kts. Minimum fuel required at take off ( not push back) is 22.0T and pitch is also limited to 15 degrees nose up on Climb out, this is to try and prevent uncovering the forward fuel boost pumps.

The takeoff and landing rolls will be shockingly short and climb rates nothing short of breathtaking. The power to weight ratio on an empty 747 is entering the realms of early military jet performance.Jon Bunting 

cheers

 

 

I'm looking forward to trying this out! Thanks for the info.

14 hours ago, jon b said:

A crew would take the empty plane to BFS hand it over to the long haul crew and nightstop then operate the inbound ferry the next morning. 

Technically yes, a 3 crew operation could do the 2 sectors but it would be tight with any delays so a separate ferry crew offers more resilience to keep the operation moving.

Things to think about for your ferry flight ... normally you’d use maximum de-rate TO-2 ATM 64 degrees, V1 is normally VMCG limited at 125kts. Minimum fuel required at take off ( not push back) is 22.0T and pitch is also limited to 15 degrees nose up on Climb out, this is to try and prevent uncovering the forward fuel boost pumps.

The takeoff and landing rolls will be shockingly short and climb rates nothing short of breathtaking. The power to weight ratio on an empty 747 is entering the realms of early military jet performance.Jon Bunting 

cheers

 

 

Excellent Jon thanks for that - VS is my operator of choice for my QOTS II flights so these things are really good to know and add a bit of realism to those ferry hops.

Just out of curiosity because I'm so stupid I can't get my head around it - as BFS-MCO is only once a week, how did the long haul crew that the ferry crew hand the aircraft over to get to BFS? Are they in the back of the 'empty' aircraft coming from LGW? Otherwise they'd have to nightstop there all week and the savings would be out of the window, wouldn't they?

Sorry, not relevant, just sheer curiosity. I'm amused at how my poor performance brain can't grasp the logic of some of these things.

On 8/7/2018 at 9:29 AM, rondon9898 said:

Excellent Jon thanks for that - VS is my operator of choice for my QOTS II flights so these things are really good to know and add a bit of realism to those ferry hops.

Just out of curiosity because I'm so stupid I can't get my head around it - as BFS-MCO is only once a week, how did the long haul crew that the ferry crew hand the aircraft over to get to BFS? Are they in the back of the 'empty' aircraft coming from LGW? Otherwise they'd have to nightstop there all week and the savings would be out of the window, wouldn't they?

Sorry, not relevant, just sheer curiosity. I'm amused at how my poor performance brain can't grasp the logic of some of these things.

Hi John, PM sent,

Cheers

Jon Bunting

Nice work.  The 748s should be around for a while still, so the PMDG version will be put to good use. 

Heres another page, that adds some airlines I didnt know about.  

https://www.knaviation.net/guide-to-flying-boeing-747-airlines-routes-2018