Traffic Global or Ultimate Traffic Live?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

@JoeFackel  thanks for the info. If those airlines can be deactivated that is a plus. I don't have  UTL yet but if/when I do I appreciate your offer.

@simbol, useful info, thanks.

@Jean-Claude, these products are only as good as the quality of the data in them. That was the problem with MT6. No schedules updated in over 5 years. I would hope UTL would be every 2-3 years max. I could live with that. If EFBv2 can see Ai then RC probably can, thanks.

@tooting, yes, I guessed from other replies the data was over a year old. As long as I don't see Easyjet in LAX it sounds like the data is reasonably accurate at the time it was collated. MAN for me would give me the best indication. Etihad and Emirates need to be there plus lots of Thomas Cook and Thomson.

[Chock 17,769]

My works crew room (Aviator) is at EGCC on Pier C right next to stand 27, so I know the traffic on those stands like the back of my hand. And since I also work on the remote stands and on the other piers too (usually getting back the equipment which Swissport have nicked off us lol), I'm also fairly au fait with what is on those stands, but let's go with the place I work on the most (Pier C) and list what is typically on there, then see how Traffic Global does in comparison to reality...

In real life, stands 22-28 are primarily used by the 737s, A320/321s and 757s of Jet 2 and Thomas Cook, with Finnair, SAS and Luftwaffe (lol) making up the rest, plus on rarer occasions there'll be Faroe Islands, Baltic etc. On the end of that pier where the building is round and the stands have larger capacity owing to being fanned out, there are usually bigger Etihad and Thomas Cook aeroplanes such as A330s. Round the other side of the pier (on the odd stand numbers), it's fairly similar in terms of what goes on the various stands until you get to Stand 23, when it's pretty much EasyJet all the time. If Traffic Global managed to get fairly close to that, then it would be a reasonably accurate indication that it, and indeed the rest of the airport is being reflected accurately in terms of what traffic goes where. If it had swapped out a Thomas Cook A320 for a Condor 757 (which is basically Thomas Cook), I'd be really impressed and would know the schedules were up to the minute, as TC only flew that one in from the Med the other day for the start of its Winter Schedule.

So how does it manage at the moment? Well, here is a shot of UK2000's EGCC Extreme in P3D V4 Pier C with AI traffic from Traffic Global, updated literally five mins before I posted this reply. As noted, it should pretty much be a Jet 2 and Thomas Cook jamboree on pier C. Ignore the Thomas Cook A330 on Stand 31, that's my BBS airliner, not an AI one...

As you can see, it's not a reflection of reality by any stretch of the imagination. Ryanair have almost never had an aeroplane on Pier C and EasyJet tend to be largely over on the next Pier (as indeed they are in this pic, but that's seems to only be the case because they appear to be everywhere lol). There isn't a single Jet 2 airliner on pier C, nor any Thomas Cook apart from my own aeroplane which doesn't count obviously. and trust me, they both practically own that pier, so much so that Jet 2 and us (Aviator) park loads of our ground service equipment there since that is where it is used for the most part.

There's no TUI stuff in front of the Radison Hotel on the other terminal either, and they practically own that terminal, Moreover, it'd be a cold day in hell when Michael O'Leary would pay for his 737s to be parked up on a stand on pier C with an air bridge and FEP facilities; his jets are largely on the remote stand with the passengers using the air stairs and climbing onto the buses to be driven to the terminal.

Now before anyone says 'aah, but Traffic Global is in Early Access', yes that is true, but it's been on sale in that state since at least 31/05/2018, because that's when it shows as having been purchased by me on my Just Flight account, and the traffic at EGCC has been like this in all that time (i.e. it's like world of EasyJet and Ryanair), this despite having downloaded and installed several updates to it.

They need to get their @rse in gear and update it, Manchester is not some obscure airport which nobody goes to, it's one of the busiest in Europe and is ranked 13th in the world in terms of the variety of destinations it serves.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Chock

[fluffyflops 1,858]

Look at all those easyjet a/c I count 15??  a prime example of how badly the data is compiled easyjet have 14 based there in the winter... 

Edited November 19, 2018 by tooting

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

@Chock, straight from the horse's mouth! Brilliant post and the comparison with TG's efforts opens my eyes.

I did receive a reply from Rich. This is what he said... "Traffic Global is still being worked on. We have a set of extra aircraft currently in the works, amongst other enhancements to the existing fleet and app. 

It is true that we are currently taking a brief hiatus from the day-to-day development whilst these are being worked on, and to attend to some other pressing tasks, but we'll be back with an update to the software before the new year, and then we'll be looking to finish off the package and come out of Early Access early next year."

 

They admit they've stopped work on a beta project. I do wonder if they need more staff for the products they're trying to sell.

I'm on the shelf regarding these two packages. I'll see if I can hold off until the new year and maybe then I can assess things better.

[JoeFackel 760]

To be fair, which AI plane is parked on what stand is mostly a thing of the AFCAD of the airport. Only if the parking code in the aircraft.cfg is Foxtrott uniformed than you can blame the traffic program.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

3 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

To be fair, which AI plane is parked on what stand is mostly a thing of the AFCAD of the airport. Only if the parking code in the aircraft.cfg is Foxtrott uniformed than you can blame the traffic program.

Agreed. If @Chock has time perhaps he can check if the Etihad and Emirates are on the ground at 13:00 GMT. That would convince me things are looking up. Stand 12 for the A380 as that's the only place it can fit. Not bothered about stands, just airline representation.

And I would expect to see plenty of Flybe too.

[Chock 17,769]

Stand 12 is not the only place the A380 can fit Ray; theoretically, it can actually fit on several stands, however it is only designated for use with two - stand 12 and stand 62 - and of those, we only ever see it on 12. Most of that is to do with wingtip clearances for taxiways and the load-bearing weight of the taxiway shoulders when turning down certain taxiways, although some of it is also due to evacuation and fire fighting procedures too and the ability to marshal such a potentially large number of evacuated passengers should an emergency occur. Stand 12 is weird, we sometimes use 12R and it's not a popular one with us because it is very exposed to the wind!

There definitely are FlyBe Dash 8s in Traffic Global (ironically, since the real airline might not be there much longer), in fact they are a bit like the third element of an omnipresent trio with it; EasyJet Airbuses and Ryanair 737s being the others there are far too many of, although in fairness, EGCC is FlyBe's hub and they have some maintenance facilities there as well.

Personally, I can tolerate Traffic Global; it was inexpensive and it is easy to use; it basically puts realistic planes on my airports instead of those default MS airlines, and that's good enough for me really, but it does nevertheless need some love from its developer. I am confident they will sort it, but as you note Ray, they're in the middle of banging out their 747-200, Vulcan and Caravelle (a few days from release for the Vulcan and the 747), so they've apparently put TG on the back burner for a while.

If anyone wants a ramp map for Manchester by the way, this is the official one which we use for real. We have a massive print out of this thing on the wall in our crew room. This is great for learning all the roads and taxiway numbers etc and is good if you have an EFB which can read PDFs. For those of you who like realistic pushbacks, the red markers on this map are the major TRPs:

https://live-webadmin-media.s3.amazonaws.com/media/3519/2018-manoeuvring-area-map-v10-a3.pdf

Edited November 19, 2018 by Chock

[Dave_YVR 973]

 Keep in mind that TG's plans are all on 24 hour plans, each aircraft does 1 return flight a day and then sits dormant which will overpopulate your larger airports. Airline fleets that are included are also quite basic, with many airlines missing many aircraft types. UTL on the other hand, of course, is using schedules over a year old, it's been out since March of 2017! It has had a couple of updates since then that were both more to the program itself fixing many bugs and issues and not for the schedule. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

@Chock, thanks Alan, very informative as usual. It sounds like the airlines are reasonably covered. I didn’t know what other projects Just Flight were working on. Sounds like they’re in need of more staff.

do you find the fps good? I understand a separate executable is used to inject the traffic and this could have a positive impact on performance rather than Ai loaded from within the sim.

@Dave_YVR raises an interesting point. One of the bugbears I had with MT6 was it inserting aircraft hours before they were due to depart. I could never find a stand at places like Lisbon.

But a handy utility called RemoveAiSleepers by Lorby fixed that by killing anything that didn’t depart in the next x minutes. I configured x to 75. It had the additional benefit of boosting fps as far fewer aircraft were left.

Is UTL better in the respect it doesn’t have a 24 hour schedule so the build up of Ai is less of an issue?

Of the two you would expect UTL to be the more polished since it’s been out longer. It is more expensive though. Around £40 compared to TG’s £27 or so.

[Chock 17,769]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Chock, thanks Alan, very informative as usual. It sounds like the airlines are reasonably covered. I didn’t know what other projects Just Flight were working on. Sounds like they’re in need of more staff.

do you find the fps good? I understand a separate executable is used to inject the traffic and this could have a positive impact on performance rather than Ai loaded from within the sim.

FPS is good with Traffic Global, but then again it would be when it's only loading in three models lol; an EasyJet A320, a Ryanair 737 and a FlyBe Dash 8, wouldn't it?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

15 minutes ago, Chock said:

FPS is good with Traffic Global, but then again it would be when it's only loading in three models lol; an EasyJet A320, a Ryanair 737 and a FlyBe Dash 8, wouldn't it?

Plus A380 and whatever the Etihad, Thomson and TC uses. What about EGLL, LFPG, KJFK. Presumably far more variation of aircraft there. And what is your Ai setting?

With fps at some airports hitting three figures I think I can just about manage a few Ai. 😁

[Dave_YVR 973]

 When I have tested TG at places like SFO, LAX, SEA there was often no more than 1 (more often not even 1) international carrier at any time of day. European coverage was better iirc. I'll fire it back up right now and check. FPS wise they are really very similar, assuming you aren't trying to use user aircraft as AI. 30, 50, 80, even 200 aircraft in the bubble from each product including the freeware AI will result in approx the same FPS.

[Dave_YVR 973]

Ok, TG at 100%, 9:20am Monday (not that it makes a difference with TG as EVERY day is the same) at EGCC. I have 20 AI on the ground. Heavy aircraft include a Virgin and an American A330.

 At 1300GMT as requested there are 42 aircraft on the ground at EGCC of which there are 7 FlyBe Q400's, 20 assorted Easy buses with 4 more inbound (remember Tooting mentioned they only have 14 based there) and 8 Ryanair 737's. The rest are assorted BA, LH etc mediums, no heavies.

 Moving to EGLL at 1300z, 1 AAL B772, 1 BA B789, 1 CSN B788, 1 ELAL B744, a plethora or BA airbus, as well a few other European A320/B737 types. There are 233 aircraft in the traffic bubble surrounding EGLL of which 8 are heavies and just the one from BA.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Dave_YVR

[Dave_YVR 973]

 Not to leave UTL out, I've checked that as well. With a bone stock UTL, 1300z Monday, there are 48 aircraft on the ground at EGCC, 1 of which is the Emirates A380 on 12, a Tomson B788, Delta B772 and B767, 10 easy machines in the old livery, a couple old livery Germanwings, and Condor airbus, assorted FlyBe Q400 and E195's, and some other varied European carriers. There is also quite a few international heavies high enroute overhead. 

 Moving over to EGLL, there are 290 aircraft in the bubble of which 90 are various heavies from close to 20 different carriers (sure it's still not close to real world, but it's much better than the previous test). T5 is full of BA 747 and 777 etc with a far greater assortment of airlines and types.

FPS still hasn't dropped below 30. It's certainly not perfect, but it's easily the better option if you aren't willing to do any of the work yourself. For those that are, there is also quite a few unassigned aircraft in UTL, leaving the user add those if they seek more traffic. Now thanks to the new AI2UTL app available here on avsim it can automatically scan your AI collection and assign repaints for you.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

Thanks Dave. That does not fill me with joy. The American is probably the flight in from Chicago but just a single Virgin 747 seems low. And no Thomas Cook or Thomson? Ouch!

Moving on to 1300Z there should be an Emirates A380 in from Dubai leaving within 2 hours. And no Etihad which has been running for 18 months if not longer. The only BA are shuttles down to LHR. 42 aircraft doesn't seem many for such a busy airport. There are still plenty of 767s / 330s for long-haul holiday makers.

At EGLL sounds pretty dire too. Should be more heavies as it's a hub airport. Sounds like they've concentrated on European flights and not many long haul.

I'm leaning towards UTL.

LATER: Just read your UTL post. That's much better. That now looks odds on. Much appreciated. 👍

Edited November 19, 2018 by Ray Proudfoot