kapitan

Unreallistic Oceans - no white foam

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Hi, 

A tip for effect tweakers and p3d designers. Wonder if you have ever put your whole head stuck in an airplane window at cruise Altitude staring at the ocean below.

 

Its not a plain blue. It jas thousands of white lines depicting waves that are braking and spreading foam, although they look as frozen lines, they dont move at all as perceived at cruise alt.

Even coastal waves look frozen. They are moving but at such low speed that from the high distance they seem frozen. They actually disappear if your eyes can track them but in its place or very next to it another wave brakes thus giving the impression of a permanent static white line. 

Ive searched and searched and nobody seems to have even raised this issue in the sim community. I wonder if they have never looked out of the window!!

 

The ocean is full of white patches, lines, very tiny at high altitudes that give the seas their reallistic appearance. I dont think its that difficult to make it right, if anyone else agrees.

I know third party have a tick for windy ocean and crust wave tops but they dont seem to fix either or if Im mistaken please correct me. 

Edited by kapitan
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I agree that oceans are far from realistic, but one has to consider all the other things P3D has to simulate. If the oceans (bodies of water) get lots of attention, this will take processing power away and reduce performance. One day its possible we will have very realistic oceans, busy ocean ports, and even busy railroad yards, but presently, todays CPU/GPU's are having a hard enough time as it is.

We still have to get a realistic atmosphere, but we have to wait for CPU chips to get a lot faster, and single SSD's to get a lot bigger.:smile: 

 

 

Edited by pracines
clairifcation of railroads

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41 minutes ago, pracines said:

I agree that oceans are far from realistic, but one has to consider all the other things P3D has to simulate. If the oceans (bodies of water) get lots of attention, this will take processing power away and reduce performance. One day its possible we will have very realistic oceans, busy ocean ports, and even railroads, but presently, todays CPU/GPU's are having a hard enough time as it is.

We still have to get a realistic atmosphere, but we have to wait for CPU chips to get a lot faster, and single SSD's to get a lot bigger.:smile: 

 

 

I can only imagine what flight simulator will bring us in 10-20 years from now!!

I will be interesting to see!!

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The whitecaps, or rather lack thereof, are not completely unrealistic. I have often been struck how little they really show from any appreciable altitude unless under particularly heavy seas or wind. 

I personally would like to see a little more variation in water color in the future. 

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1 hour ago, flyinpilot212121 said:

I can only imagine what flight simulator will bring us in 10-20 years from now!!

I will be interesting to see!!

Absolutely! Or even next 3-5 years! 

This is where I started my simming 🙂

https://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/msfs4.htm

 

Edited by kiki
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Yeah, I remember!!! What a laugh now!!

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On 11/4/2018 at 10:42 AM, lennie said:

Yeah, I remember!!! What a laugh now!!

But, at the time, it was wonderful!!!

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Hi Folks,

Oh - the waves - one of my pet peeves - I think one of my ORBX products changed the waves and they move at cartoon speed - probably well over a hundred miles an hour if anyone ever took the time to calculate it... Wave motion in the RW is practically imperceptible at aircraft altitudes... I wish someone would fix the cartoon waves...

Regards,
Scott

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On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, kiki said:

Absolutely! Or even next 3-5 years! 

This is where I started my simming 🙂

https://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/msfs4.htm

 

Hi Folks,

Wow - you had a color monitor ?

I was on monochrome for years...

:tongue:

Regards,
Scott

Edited by scottb613
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Lack of white foam waves at around 2K-10K is one of my pet peeves.

 

guess what guys... The initial FSX had this. That was one of the best part of FSX when we went from FS9. the Ocean came alive

Then P3d came and added low level water animation... the ocean water heaving which was good for sea planes and boats. But we lost the white foam waves. I do not believe the low level water heaving was worth losing the white foams at altitude.. But the sea plane folks may disagree with me.

 

Edited by Manny
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My first experience was with subLOGIC Flight Simulator 1 for Apple II. We have come a long way. 

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At one point in time, there was a thread here, where people described their experiences in altering the configuration file that is located in the P3d triton subfolder. Triton is the SDK that LM uses for water effects. I remember tinkering with some of these settings also, but I could never see any tangible difference, so either the file is not really used or P3d doesn't implement many of the features contained in the config file.  There is also waterconstants.xml, located in the appdata folder, which allows the user and 3rd party developers to make some minor tweaks to the appearance of the ocean and other waterbodies.

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This horrible Water destroys many of the positive Items who LM hat changed from FSX to P3D.

Remember that 3/4 of our Globe is covered with Water and what we see here is a affront to our Eyes. If you want to cross the pond - you will get an Eye-Cancer! Together with that foolish Cloud draw distance restriction which prevents Active Sky from working well -  will be a long distance high Altitude Flight over Water a harrowing Adventure.

All that junk is taken from FSX like Ground Vehicles on Airports, AI-Traffic, Stoneaged Airspaces, Groundfriction and so on, but one of the best on FSX - the Water display -has been irgnored!

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I would prefer that  these unrealistic looking shoreline waves would be fixed first. And as long this is not gonna happen, please, LM give us a switch to turn them off.

Edited by Nemo

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As mentioned previously in this thread there is a post on the official ORBX forum that explains how to improve the shoreline waves. The first step is to rename the default fx file, so if you stop at that you won't have any shoreline waves.

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The ORBX waves are a bit slower.

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Those shoreline waves are rubbish, so they have been removed from my PC in P3D v3.4. As for the open water at altitude, the problem with it is that it looks too static. In fact, the default water at altitude looks a lot like coastal mud with lines in it when the tide has gone out. Not realistic at all. Whether waves can be discerned at altitude or not in the real world is a moot point. Your eye can detect extremely subtle movement even when the detail is not easily detectable.....and that is what needs to be accounted for in the simulator. FSX had a kind of shimmering effect (which may have been purely accidental), but some developers (I am thinking REX here) found a way to enhance this effect to create a much more realistic interpretation of water movement at altitude. Sadly, those same texture improvements when used in P3D are absolutely useless :sad:

Edited by Christopher Low

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The ocean appearance in P3d4 relies on a number of factors. At low elevation, the Triton SDK is used to generate wave physics. The rendering of the ocean water though, is done directly by P3d. At higher elevation, the ocean becomes more or less a flat surface and the appearance depends on the textures that are being used. I have found that either of the EnvTex photorealistic textures look pretty good. The whole complaint about whitecaps is somewhat overblown in my opinion, because in the real world whitecaps are not visible at high elevation.

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3 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

The ocean appearance in P3d4 relies on a number of factors. At low elevation, the Triton SDK is used to generate wave physics. The rendering of the ocean water though, is done directly by P3d. At higher elevation, the ocean becomes more or less a flat surface and the appearance depends on the textures that are being used. I have found that either of the EnvTex photorealistic textures look pretty good. The whole complaint about whitecaps is somewhat overblown in my opinion, because in the real world whitecaps are not visible at high elevation.

+1

This is flightsimulator, not boat simulator ... 

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29 minutes ago, GSalden said:

+1

This is flightsimulator, not boat simulator ... 

I wonder if P3D will have submarine races someday? 

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On 11/4/2018 at 8:24 AM, kiki said:

Absolutely! Or even next 3-5 years! 

This is where I started my simming 🙂

https://fshistory.simflight.com/fsvault/msfs4.htm

 

Sadly it does not work under 64 bit Windows, too bad, I loved FS4 and Flight Assignment ATP both.  It was the sim that inspired me to finally buy a Packard Bell PC and drop my Atari ST, although I kept the Atari Running until I sold it.

John

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