Noel

What are the big missing features in XP11.x v P3D 4.x now?

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My P3D install is v 3.4, and it's in a box that is based on SB-E and original GTX Titan and is now 5y/o+ but still works well at 4.42Ghz.  I'm wondering now what major features are missing in XP10.x now and if it's worth leaving P3D which is my intention at some point, presumably when I do a new build which won't happen until this build dies.  The massive 3rd party content is the main reason I'm still using P3D.   When this box finally gives up the ghost I will need to decide between P3D v4.x or v5, versus XP11.x.  

  1. Is there native ATC in XP11, and if so how does it compare to P3D/FSX's ATC?
  2. Is there weather apps such as ActiveSky for XP11?  If so, how does it compare?
  3. Any apps that track your pilot skills, such as FSCaptain?
  4. How about apps such as GSX to add dynamic realism?
  5. What does XP11 do better than P3D 4.x?

Thanks in advance!

 

Edited by Noel

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A lot of stuff... but the more important ones are (in my opinion):

For X-Plane:
A decent weather engine

For P3D 4.X
Cloud depiction and lighting engine.

At least, that's my view...

Edited by Anders Bermann
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For P3D 4.X - Flight recording is abysmal, FSRecorder for FSX was never updated for P3D.  Going in and out of clouds is not realistic, no sloped runway options.

For Xplane11 - Cumulus clouds have no substance, too thin unless one layers them, cloud shadows not as good as P3D 4.x.  GPS should allow for hand input to select a destination, instead one has to scroll, it is tedious, except in the Aerobask Eclipse.  The new particle system hits fps in Xplane11, I will not upgrade beyond version 11.26 unless an option is added in 11.3 and beyond to disable it.  It is also not realistic, wingtips do not create contrails at cruise, the engines do, and the contrails are still black on add-on aircraft.  Last, torque effects are a bit too strong in Xplane11, there should be a realism slider to tune them for all aircraft.

There cannot be a perfect sim, but these sims have had glaring issues, uncorrected, for years.

John

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It would certainly take a 33,000 page book to describe all that is missing in both sims. When it comes down to it, when one "big" thing is added, another "big" thing is needed.

Not worth the effort to calculate/discuss/debate this for at least another 50 years, we all know what is lacking. Maybe in 50 years we can all be satisfied with all the "big" things that we have, maybe not.

 

Edited by pracines
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11 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

For P3D 4.X - Flight recording is abysmal, FSRecorder for FSX was never updated for P3D.  Going in and out of clouds is not realistic, no sloped runway options.

For Xplane11 - Cumulus clouds have no substance, too thin unless one layers them, cloud shadows not as good as P3D 4.x.  GPS should allow for hand input to select a destination, instead one has to scroll, it is tedious, except in the Aerobask Eclipse.  The new particle system hits fps in Xplane11, I will not upgrade beyond version 11.26 unless an option is added in 11.3 and beyond to disable it.  It is also not realistic, wingtips do not create contrails at cruise, the engines do, and the contrails are still black on add-on aircraft.  Last, torque effects are a bit too strong in Xplane11, there should be a realism slider to tune them for all aircraft.

There cannot be a perfect sim, but these sims have had glaring issues, uncorrected, for years.

John

What do you mean by hand input? You can manually enter a fix or airport in the GPS. My frame rate went up in 11.30 by 10-20 FPS by enabling threaded optimization, I was loosing frames with that option in 11.26. Clouds look better in 11.30! No towering cumulus clouds yet 😞 Its up to the add-on Dev to update their AC to take advantage of the new particle system, thats why you are seeing black contrails. I am not seeing contrails from wingtips?

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5 minutes ago, strider1 said:

What do you mean by hand input? You can manually enter a fix or airport in the GPS. My frame rate went up in 11.30 by 10-20 FPS by enabling threaded optimization, I was loosing frames with that option in 11.26. Clouds look better in 11.30! No towering cumulus clouds yet 😞 Its up to the add-on Dev to update their AC to take advantage of the new particle system, thats why you are seeing black contrails. I am not seeing contrails from wingtips?

Where do I enable threaded optimization?  I do not see that option in my Xplane11 graphics settings.

John

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29 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

 torque effects are a bit too strong in Xplane11,

Add the still unrealistic and unsatisfactory aerodynamics simulation during crosswind ops. 

IRL the rather lightweight ATR42 has a 45kts crosswind limit….in x-plane 11.30b3 not even the 747 can handle that!

Since the still buggy crosswind and turbulence simulation makes even remotely acceptable xnd takeoffs and landings impossible, I'm not even thinking about switching.

Edited by FDEdev
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I don't see much of a need for a comparison. I am sure you can start by buying a copy to start looking at things yourself. XP is its own simulator with its own history and development, and doesn't deserve to be seen as a "my potential P3D substitute in the future"

A huge marketplace also doesn't matter much if the quality of such addons isn't great. In general i prefere quality over quantity, and even in this case on P3D i can count quality addons with two hands more or less.

Edited by france89
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You don't even need to buy xp.  Simply download the demo which is identical with the full version.

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John,

Threaded optimization setting  is in your Nvidia control panel

                                                Ron

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1 hour ago, RonF said:

John,

Threaded optimization setting  is in your Nvidia control panel

                                                Ron

Thanks, mine is currently off, so turning it on would hurt 11.26's performance?  I wonder its impact on P3DV4?

John

Edit: In regards to Xplane11.26, I enabled it and saw a much better impact on smoothness, makes me surprised Nvidia does not enable it by default.  My fps now match or exceed P3DV4, or at least the smoothness aspect.  So I will have to retry the beta with this feature enabled.

John

Edited by Cactus521

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26 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

Thanks, mine is currently off, so turning it on would hurt 11.26's performance?  I wonder its impact on P3DV4?

John

Your mileage will very, if at all. Depends on your system specs and your settings.  I did not see any performance in 11.26 but seen a great performance boost in 11.30. 

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Are we expecting too much perfection from either product?

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1 hour ago, strider1 said:

Your mileage will very, if at all. Depends on your system specs and your settings.  I did not see any performance in 11.26 but seen a great performance boost in 11.30. 

I am retrying the beta now since enabling the feature certainly did not have a negative impact on Xplane11.  My system has run both sims well, all the sims I have run on it run well, Wings of Prey, Trainsim 2019, and No Limits Coaster Sim 2.  Only other entertainment titles I have on my system are Hoyle Card Games and Microsoft's Chess Titan's, Hearts and their legacy games from previous versions of Windows which can be installed into Windows ten.  I even have my old Solitaire and Minesweeper and Mahjong.  I have my system for two main reasons, flight simming and the web, as even in my retirement I stay connected with my former colleagues on LinkedIn and write referrals for them in the Information Tech industry.  I have seen almost all my former peers rise to the level of IT Managers or CIO's, most in India, over the years, I could tag any colleague I worked with as a future success story, just as I have seen members in these forums flourish over the years.  It all started with Phil Collins and the band Genesis, LOL.  When I heard him take over for Peter Gabriel and heard his drumming and his voice, I said to myself and my close friends that his career would soar.  They said, "Phil Who?"....  His career did soar, I saw him in concert in the 90's.  I felt the same way about Xplane when it came out, when Microsoft pulled out of flight simming.  The Mouse that Roared, that is what Xplane is, literally the savior of simulation by keeping competition alive.  I know diehard MSFS/P3D fans sometimes knock it but it has the bona fides of any professional sim out there, IMHO.

John

 

Retried the beta with threaded optimization enabled and my add-on Eclipse is a slide show with the particle system, I'd say less than 20 fps whereas in 11.26 it exceeds 40 fps.  So I am reverting back to 11.26 and there I will stay, unless an option is added to disable the particle system. Cumulus clouds especially are a disappointment, you can see them moving in a stuttery fashion whereas in 11.26 they move smoothly.  All I wanted in 11.30 were white contrails for the jets, not sure why a new particle system had to be created to change dark contrails to white.  As for crosswind handling did not matter much to me, I fly with variable winds of 3-7 knots and in variable directions and takeoff and land with no issues, it is the torque in the Cessna that is a bit overboard.  I know those things can be tweaked but I am not a tweaker, not knowing what to tweak or how to tweak it.

John

Edited by Cactus521

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Missing in XP:

  • Seasons
  • Performance
  • Weather engine
  • Improved ground textures (and autogen trees)

Missing in P3D:

  • ground handling
  • aerodynamics
  • countless bugs regarding the simulation of aerodynamics, engine dynamics, ground friction bug, turboprop engines, piston engines etc.
  • pbr and other graphical improvements
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So I have tried the beta twice, with and without threaded optimization.  It is smooth with default aircraft but stuttery with my add-on Aerobask Eclipse, which I refuse to give up, so I reverted to 11.26 again and I will still there.  I will leave threaded optimization enabled in 11.26 however, perceptibly Xplane11 is smoother than it was without it.  So when 11.30 is final I will opt out and stay where I am, it ain't broke that bad and I don't wanna fix it.  This is what betas are for, to try and decide if they are right for your system.  My rig just is not powerful enough to handle the new particle system.

John

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53 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

So I have tried the beta twice, with and without threaded optimization.  It is smooth with default aircraft but stuttery with my add-on Aerobask Eclipse, which I refuse to give up, so I reverted to 11.26 again and I will still there.  I will leave threaded optimization enabled in 11.26 however, perceptibly Xplane11 is smoother than it was without it.  So when 11.30 is final I will opt out and stay where I am, it ain't broke that bad and I don't wanna fix it.  This is what betas are for, to try and decide if they are right for your system.  My rig just is not powerful enough to handle the new particle system.

John

Did you try a Clean copy of Xplane 11.30? What are you system specs? And what settings are you using in xplane? If you are seeing stutters your probably using to much vram

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7 minutes ago, strider1 said:

Did you try a Clean copy of Xplane 11.30? What are you system specs? And what settings are you using in xplane? If you are seeing stutters your probably using to much vram

Yes, was clean copy, my system specs are in my signature.  11.26 is smooth as glass, 11.30, when the particle system is in use, is not.  It is smooth under all other circumstances, it is the particle system that hobbles it.  My prop flights in 11.30 were just as smooth as in 11.26.  But my add-on jet flights in the Eclipse really suffered.  The test scenario I used was a flight from SFO to Reno up to FL270, with a deck of cumulus and high cirrus, and light winds, and photoreal scenery I made with Ortho4XP.  In 11.26 it is smooth as butter, a real sensation of flight.  In 11.30, it stutters, and I'd say drops below 20fps, especially near clouds.  I tried the first 11.30 beta with threaded optimization off and the latest beta with it on.  No difference in performance, the particle system is a slouch on my system and since my cpu speed is not the highest, and my VRAM is not the highest, it is obvious that Xplane is using a far better system than mine for 11.30.  I will stick with 11.26.  I do not have to upgrade just because an upgrade is available.  Someone's gripes aren't mine, that's all.

John

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5 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

Yes, was clean copy, my system specs are in my signature.  11.26 is smooth as glass, 11.30, when the particle system is in use, is not.  It is smooth under all other circumstances, it is the particle system that hobbles it.  My prop flights in 11.30 were just as smooth as in 11.26.  But my add-on jet flights in the Eclipse really suffered.  The test scenario I used was a flight from SFO to Reno up to FL270, with a deck of cumulus and high cirrus, and light winds, and photoreal scenery I made with Ortho4XP.  In 11.26 it is smooth as butter, a real sensation of flight.  In 11.30, it stutters, and I'd say drops below 20fps, especially near clouds.  I tried the first 11.30 beta with threaded optimization off and the latest beta with it on.  No difference in performance, the particle system is a slouch on my system and since my cpu speed is not the highest, and my VRAM is not the highest, it is obvious that Xplane is using a far better system than mine for 11.30.  I will stick with 11.26.  I do not have to upgrade just because an upgrade is available.  Someone's gripes aren't mine, that's all.

John

Your system ram is very low and so is your vram. You should have at a min 16GB of ram and at least 6-8GB of vram in my opinion. You probably need to stick to 11.26 until you update your computer specs or you need to lower your sliders in the settings menu.  

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1 hour ago, strider1 said:

Your system ram is very low and so is your vram. You should have at a min 16GB of ram and at least 6-8GB of vram in my opinion. You probably need to stick to 11.26 until you update your computer specs or you need to lower your sliders in the settings menu.  

I will stick with 11.26 and keep my sliders where they are at, I am happy with Xplane11 with them set at a high level.  11.30 chokes my system, 11.26 does not, I see no need for going backwards and turning Xplane11 into FS9.

John

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4 hours ago, NorwegianAviator said:

Missing in P3D:

  • ground handling
  • aerodynamics
  • countless bugs regarding the simulation of aerodynamics, engine dynamics, ground friction bug, turboprop engines, piston engines etc.
  • pbr and other graphical improvements

LOL, finally typical x-plane fan-boy comments again. I'm developing FDEs/FMs for both sims since many years and nothing could be further from the truth. 

If x-plane is so much better, why is it that one can't land any airplane in a limiting crosswind? 

The horrible pitch down moment in ground effect until 11.30 was realistic? Seriously?

That's another drawback of  x-plane. Every few versions Austin re-invents the wheel and breaks items that where working before. 

It's always two steps forward and one step back. A horror scenario for every developer and very annoying for paying customers.

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Well,

something's missing on both, for sure... because I ended up playing War Thunder 99% of the time and I can't look back....

I'd say, to really contribute something worth for your OP, that weather is turning the good way !

Then, even with all of it's quirks, and there are quite a few, the modelling of default features both flight dynamics and systems wise, available by simply using the native Plane-Maker application that comes with XP, is quite ahead of what FSX / P3D offer, and the outcome, at least in as far as rotary wing are concerned, is far superior.

 

Edited by jcomm
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21 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Then, with all of it quirks, and there are quite a few, the modelling of default features both flight dynamics and systems wise, available by simply using the native Plane-Maker application that comes with XP, is quite ahead of what FSX / P3D offer, and the outcome, at least in as far as rotary wing are concerned, is far superior.

Concerning helos, that's definitely true!

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6 hours ago, FDEdev said:

LOL, finally typical x-plane fan-boy comments again. I'm developing FDEs/FMs for both sims since many years and nothing could be further from the truth. 

If x-plane is so much better, why is it that one can't land any airplane in a limiting crosswind? 

The horrible pitch down moment in ground effect until 11.30 was realistic? Seriously?

That's another drawback of  x-plane. Every few versions Austin re-invents the wheel and breaks items that where working before. 

It's always two steps forward and one step back. A horror scenario for every developer and very annoying for paying customers.

First of all, you are correct, I am a fan-boy of XP. But I'm also a fan-boy of P3D and DCS World, and I don't see any problems with this. I've also been a fan-boy of real aviation for the last 10 years, both recreational flying and commercially. Been using the ESP platform since FS98, but the last 6 months I've been using XP more and more.

This thread is not about P3D vs XP. It's about the biggest missing features on both platforms. I'm not saying XP is perfect, but generally way ahead of P3D regarding aerodynamics. Regarding crosswind. XP is atleast TRYING to simulate crosswind, and the effect is has on the airplane. It's not perfect, but still far better than I've ever seen on the ESP platform. In P3D you can land any plane in 50kt crosswind without any problems. You don't even need wind correction on the ground, the plane will just slide sideways in a straight line on the runway in P3D. Ground handling in P3D is lacking completely. Then you have the ground friction bug which has been on the platform since the FSX days (and possibly even longer, don't remember). Turboprop engines are so terribly poorly simulated it's a big joke. To a point where they're useless, and the reason why I never fly turboprops in P3D (the only exception being Majestic, but they use external simulation). Even piston engines don't work the way they're supposed to (you need A2A planes for that). RPM/MP bug, leaning bug etc. These issues have been reported to LM many many times over the years. But LM refuse to fix them because it will break backward compatibility. And then you have the horrible helicopter simulation. And I guess we don't need to go into details here. The list goes on here. The only positive thing with P3D in this regard is the possibility to use external simulation for certain things, not sure if this is possible in XP, and if so, to what degree.

Even if it's two steps forward and one step back, it's still making progress. And as long as there is progress, I'm happy 🙂

 

 

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12 hours ago, NorwegianAviator said:

Missing in XP:

  • Seasons
  • Performance
  • Weather engine
  • Improved ground textures (and autogen trees)

Missing in P3D:

  • ground handling
  • aerodynamics
  • countless bugs regarding the simulation of aerodynamics, engine dynamics, ground friction bug, turboprop engines, piston engines etc.
  • pbr and other graphical improvements

 

I think Jan gets it right with this list, however I would add the following to each:

 

Missing in XP:

  • Large Quality Payware Market (not required, but definitely nice to have)
  • Quality ATC simulation
  • Quality Air Traffic addons

Missing in P3D:

  • Large Quality Freeware Market (outside of liveries) (not required, but definitely nice to have)
  • Easy to use and modernized UI
  • Performance without tweaks (or just disable all shadows and go back to FSX... 😎)

 

Disclaimer: I do not like XP and prefer P3D over it anyday of the week for a ton of my own reasons, but while testing Orbx TrueEarth GB in XP I couldn't help but long for P3D to look and feel as good as XP did... 😉

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