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Before buying P3D, could I have advice on the suitability of of my PC spec' to run P3D ?

The G/Card recommended spec' for P3D is typically GTX 1080Ti 8GB.  I have GTX 770 2GB .

The Ram recommended spec' for P3D is typically 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz .  I have 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz .

Would my G/Card spec' and Ram spec' give a poor performance when when trying to run P3D ?

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In my opinion your GTX 770 2GB would work, it meets LM system requirements, but as a bare minimum.  Your memory is not the bottleneck that your CPU probably is...you didn't provide that.

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16 minutes ago, downscc said:

In my opinion your GTX 770 2GB would work, it meets LM system requirements, but as a bare minimum.  Your memory is not the bottleneck that your CPU probably is...you didn't provide that.

I would agree with Dan's assessment. Your CPU is the biggest factor. That said, your GPU probably represents the barest of minimums, and I would consider upgrading. While I do hear of people happy with the performance their GTX980 may give them, the 2GB of VRAM your card has is probably too little. It would mean setting your sliders very low, essentially disabling all the niceties that make P3Dv4 worthwhile over previous versions.

If your wallet and PSU can handle it, consider upgrading to a RTX2060, which will give you hugely improved performance over your current card and probably won't break your bank.

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Thanks for that.

My CPU:  i5-4670K 3.40GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - OEM

 

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34 minutes ago, twister1853 said:

Thanks for that.

My CPU:  i5-4670K 3.40GHz (Haswell) Socket LGA1150 Processor - OEM

 

I think with a moderate GPU upgrade you should get acceptable performance.  

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I now see I would need a RAM update to 16 MB at about £140.  The RTX2060 is pricey at around £350 . So it looks like I'm priced out of this one at ther present.

The last reply by mpw8679 suggests a moderate GPU upgrade might give me acceptable performance.  Can I have a suggestiopn for a typical moderate GPU ?

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55 minutes ago, twister1853 said:

I now see I would need a RAM update to 16 MB at about £140.  The RTX2060 is pricey at around £350 . So it looks like I'm priced out of this one at ther present.

The last reply by mpw8679 suggests a moderate GPU upgrade might give me acceptable performance.  Can I have a suggestiopn for a typical moderate GPU ?

What's your upper limit?

You could also consider a GTX 1060, but I'm not sure you should go with anything less... Personally I use a GTX 1070 and find that in most circumstances it's not maxing out, so the GTX1070 should work well for you. If you're having to choose between investing more in a CPU or GPU, though, I'd recommend focusing on the CPU, as that's likely to be the bigger bottle neck.

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Posted (edited)

I think your cheapest route to good P3D performance is to:

  • get a big cooler (e.g. Hyper 212 X) on your i5k and overclock it to 4+ GHz
  • grab a used GTX1070 or GTX1080 graphics card with at least 3GB+ graphics memory
    • You can reuse this in a new build later; when you decided to replace the CPU you may as well build a whole new system because you'll need a new motherboard and new RAM anyway.
  • Existing 16GB RAM is more than enough, don't worry about the speed of it.

The above assumes your existing motherboard supports overclocking and the power supply has sufficient capacity for both the uprated graphics card and processor. It's based on running a single monitor at 1080p, if you start going up to 4K or multiple screen then that's a whole different game.

My advise is from personal experience of my GTX980 with P3D. Your existing GTX770 is a bare minimum and will require significant compromise on the visuals to get a playable framerate. P3D is still quite single core clockspeed dependent, I'm running an older processor than you but I have a 4.5 GHz overclock that's kept it in the game.

Edited by ckyliu

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If you can find a 1080Ti (big if-  Microcenter hasn't had one in months that I've seen) then that would be fine. The raytracing of the 2xxx series is, frankly, underwhelming even in games that actually use it, and P3d doesn't use it. You'll only get marginally better non-raytracing performance out of a 2xxx over the 1080Ti, which I suspect is why nVidia is updating the 1xxx series drivers to do raytracing -- hoping that people will get mad at the bad performance under raytracing and upgrade because sales of the new series have been less than they hoped.

I ran p3d for a while on a system very similar to yours. It was fine, but you will have to make compromises. You'll have to lower the graphics sliders a lot. If you fly, for instance, the PMDG 747 you'll want to disable the copilot's screens to save system resources. And if you fly somewhere dense like Los Angeles or NYC, you will still stutter badly. But you'll be able to do it, and if you stick to low-density scenery areas you can have a smooth experience.

Were I in your shoes, I would not do piecemeal upgrades. To run p3d at its full potential you'll want a new graphics card and CPU, and that means you need a new motherboard, and that means you need new ram, and if your computer is prebuilt or you didn't go overboard on the power supply when you built it, you'll need a new one of those too.

I'd start saving and then do a major upgrade when I could afford it. You'll get more bang for your buck.

 

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You need both CPU and GPU horsepower to run P3D.  Your CPU is enough if overclocked to at least 4 GHz.  Your 2GB GPU isn't.  You have enough RAM.

For the GPU, a used 6GB 980Ti or an 8GB 1070 would work. A 4GB 980 could work if you're budget is severely limited.  You need 4GB VRAM absolute minimum if you're running a single HD monitor, and 6GB or more for 1440p, 4K, or multiple monitors.

If you have an OEM system using a proprietary motherboard with a hobbled BIOS or crammed into a small case that won't allow installation of a good aftermarket CPU cooler, then it's probably not going to be worth it...you'd have to replace case, motherboard, RAM, probably the PSU, and also a new copy of Windows, since OEM versions can't be transferred to a new system.  Basically, you're looking at a new system at that point.

All that said, P3D does have a 60-day money-back return policy, so you can try it out and see just how it runs on your system.  Your idea of "acceptable" performance may be different than any of ours.

Regards

 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Before buying P3D, could I have advice on the suitability of of my PC spec' to run P3D ?

The G/Card recommended spec' for P3D is typically GTX 1080Ti 8GB.  I have GTX 770 2GB .The Ram recommended spec' for P3D is typically 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz .  I have 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz .

You do not say what screen resolution you want to run P3D at, whether you want to simulate complex weather, and if you want to enable dynamic lighting. For the record, my i5 4690k @ 4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GTX 770 powered PC runs P3D v4 pretty well.....but I run @ 1920x1080 resolution on a single 24" widescreen monitor, with calm and clear sky conditions, and with dynamic lighting disabled.

On the positive side, I run lots of detailed AI airliners @ 100% traffic density, and with Scenery Complexity and Autogen Density set to Extremely Dense.

Edited by Christopher Low
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18 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

You do not say what screen resolution you want to run P3D at, whether you want to simulate complex weather, and if you want to enable dynamic lighting. For the record, my i5 4690k @ 4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GTX 770 powered PC runs P3D v4 pretty well.....but I run @ 1920x1080 resolution on a single 24" widescreen monitor, with calm and clear sky conditions, and with dynamic lighting disabled.

On the positive side, I run lots of detailed AI airliners @ 100% traffic density, and with Scenery Complexity and Autogen Density set to Extremely Dense.

Out of curiosity, what kind of flying do you typically do, and in what area?

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Posted (edited)

PMDG 737/747/777 and QW 787 short, low level flights around the UK and across to FlyTampa Amsterdam and Copenhagen. I have photoscenery of the entire UK and Ireland (ORBx TrueEarth GB South plus PlayHorizon for the rest). That means detailed tree and building autogen for southern and central England and Wales, and detailed tree autogen only for the rest of the UK.

It's worth noting that I had to disable the "3DM" custom building files in ORBx TrueEarth GB South to get acceptable performance around London, but I have not tested it yet since the "performance and control panel" update.

Edited by Christopher Low

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24 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

PMDG 737/747/777 and QW 787 short, low level flights around the UK and across to FlyTampa Amsterdam and Copenhagen. I have photoscenery of the entire UK and Ireland (ORBx TrueEarth GB South plus PlayHorizon for the rest). That means detailed tree and building autogen for southern and central England and Wales, and detailed tree autogen only for the rest of the UK.

It's worth noting that I had to disable the "3DM" custom building files in ORBx TrueEarth GB South to get acceptable performance around London, but I have not tested it yet since the "performance and control panel" update.

Wow, that's incredible! I'm surprised you're able to do that type of flying with the rig you got, but good for you! I've been wanting to upgrade my CPU to an i7 9700k, because currently larger airports with details surroundings are bringing my computer to its knees. Meaning, I can land at LGA, EWR or even JFK well enough even in thunderstorms, but it means not looking at Manhattan at all. And let's be honest, what's the point of landing in NYC if you can't look at the skyline? Also FlyTampa's AMS (with OrbX TE NL) is not generating the kind of performance I've been wanting to see. It's... fine, but I'd like it to be more fluid.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not surprised. There is a tendency amongst many users to state P3D requires the latest and greatest hardware and to hell with the price, although this thread has been surprisingly restrained in that regard. You can actually do quite well on much lesser kit such as myself and Chris, it's not like I've got all my sliders turned down either (all my settings and kit are in my Avsim profile). If you ran FSX well, you will run P3D well enough, although the bottleneck may move from processor to CPU.

Edited by ckyliu

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Posted (edited)

Yes, it's important for users with less powerful PCs to note that a 2GB graphics card like the GTX 770 can handle P3D v4 surprisingly well if you steer clear of multi monitor/4K setups, disable dynamic lighting and external shadows, and don't go crazy with complex real time weather generation. To be honest, I was somewhat surprised when I discovered that my PC could handle the FlyTampa Amsterdam Schiphol/ORBx TrueEarth Netherlands combo pretty well when airborne (it struggles a bit more when on the ground). The fact that a 2GB graphics card can handle all of that detail (and I have everything ticked in the TE Netherlands control panel) speaks volumes about just how hard some users are trying to push P3D on their systems. I have seen comments on AVSIM (and elsewhere) that you really need 8GB+ VRAM to run P3D v4 acceptably well, which is quite clearly nonsense if you don't try to do the FS equivalent of accurately simulating the motions of all one hundred billion plus stars in the galaxy! :wink:

Edited by Christopher Low
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1 hour ago, Benjamin J said:

Wow, that's incredible! I'm surprised you're able to do that type of flying with the rig you got, but good for you! I've been wanting to upgrade my CPU to an i7 9700k, because currently larger airports with details surroundings are bringing my computer to its knees. Meaning, I can land at LGA, EWR or even JFK well enough even in thunderstorms, but it means not looking at Manhattan at all. And let's be honest, what's the point of landing in NYC if you can't look at the skyline?

:)  Are you positive that the 9700k will bring you the ability to look at the NYC skyline?

I am not, that's why I soldier on with my 8700K @ 5.0 ghz.  I have a "city" settings profile for places like NYC.

I soldier on with the 8700K with the hopeful feeling that about a year from now something nice will be out.

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Wow - what a thread this has turned out be - great advice. 

Overclockers purpose built my PC a few years ago.

CPU:  i5-4670 3.40GHz (liquid cooled) can be overclocked to 4.3GHz .

RAM:  8GB DDR3 2400MHz (can easily go to 16GB DDR3 1866MHz - can't get any more 2400GHZ)

Power supply: Corsoir high performance 650W PS.

Monitor: 27" run at 1920x1080x32.

 

Christopher Low and Benjamin J have rigs very, very similar to mine

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  • except theirs is i5 4690k : mine is i5 4670k.
  • Typically, on FSX, I would run PMDG 737 800/900 NGX over Horizon UK photo' scenery or Switzerland X photo'scenery, UK2000 airfields and with  most sliders maxed out and real weather.
  • Half of the time, I experience OOM .
Half of the time I experience OOM.
  •  
 

 

 

Quote

Before buying P3D, could I have advice on the suitability of of my PC spec' to run P3D ?

The G/Card recommended spec' for P3D is typically GTX 1080Ti 8GB.  I have GTX 770 2GB .The Ram recommended spec' for P3D is typically 16GB DDR4 2666 MHz .  I have 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz .

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mace said:

:)  Are you positive that the 9700k will bring you the ability to look at the NYC skyline?

I am not, that's why I soldier on with my 8700K @ 5.0 ghz.  I have a "city" settings profile for places like NYC.

I soldier on with the 8700K with the hopeful feeling that about a year from now something nice will be out.

100% positive? No, but I have noticed a trend in your all's posts so far: you are all using OC'ed i7 processors, of both older and newer generations. I'm using an OC'ed i5-8600k. I'm hoping that an i7 will boost my performance somewhat, and then I'll take the 9700k since it's the newest one. Because if I'm upgrading anyway, and the price difference between the 8700k and 9700k is not that big, I might as well go with the newer generation. I will say I have no idea how a i5 at 4.8GhZ is different from an i7 at 4.9GhZ (the 9700k's turbo boost), but I guess it makes a difference...

I definitely feel like upgrading from my GTX1070 is not worthwhile. Most of the time it's at 30-50% usage, and I've seen it 100% only once in many months of using P3Dv4.

 

Raymond: Indeed, it does seem like you essentially have my rig if I were to have built it several years ago. My rig runs P3Dv4 overall very well. That said, it struggles in dense urban areas that feayure one or more hub airports, the worst offenders being the LA and NYC areas, which hit my rig harder than the also-very-dense Hong Kong area (FT's VHHX, T2G's VHHH and TC's VMMC). Also single hub airports in less dense areas, but coupled with OrbX regional scenery can be hard, such as EHAM, EDDF or KSEA. I have never flown into any London airport as yet, even though I have virtually all of them, so I can't tell you how that works (though I'm not optimistic)... I'm like a butterfly :) I flutter from one area of the world to the other as my interests change all the time. It's likely that sometime soon I'll fly into one the London area as I';ve bene itching to fly my Martinair PMDG 747 into EGSS, or take a FlyBe DH4 from EHAM to EGLC.

Now, in all fairness, I ask a lot from my computer. I love pretty pictures, and of course this comes at a cost. I have real world weather, and in winter the weather tends to be cloudy and hazy, which brings down performance. Then I have shadows enabled for nearly everything besides trees, I have 100% AI traffic, my sliders are set to high settings save for scenery complexity, which is a notch or two higher. I also enable dynamic lighting and dynamic reflections, though relfections and shows quality are typically set to low. I do have them set to display as far out as can be.

What this means is that flying the PMDG 747 around smaller airports or areas with less details (e.g. South America) my sim performs very well. It also means that areas like KLAX can be very stuttery. The NYC area can be similarly hard on performance, but I did notice that sat in the PMDG 737NGX at KEWR I can actually maintain 24FPS pretty well. KLGA and KJFK are much more of an issue however, and so I tend not to fly there.

And then there's the few rogue areas that, despite the fact that there doesn't seem to be that much going on, the sim still struggles. The best example of this is FT's CYYZ, which, for reaosns that are completely beyond me, performs much worse than I ever thought it would.

So with all that in mind, it's possible your rig will handle P3Dv4 fine, as long as you are conservative with your sliders. OOM will be a thing of the past even with your current rig - this is the difference between a 32bit and 64bit sim! However, if you want to make use of P3Dv4's features, a lot of which revolves around shadows and lighting, you really should consider upgrading your CPU and GPU. And as others have said, this may require a MOBO upgrade as well.

So in the end, it depends on how much money you want to spend. Set your target, and tailor your options to that.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

I'm using an OC'ed i5-8600k. I'm hoping that an i7 will boost my performance somewhat, and then I'll take the 9700k since it's the newest one. Because if I'm upgrading anyway, and the price difference between the 8700k and 9700k is not that big, I might as well go with the newer generation. I will say I have no idea how a i5 at 4.8GhZ is different from an i7 at 4.9GhZ (the 9700k's turbo boost), but I guess it makes a difference...

Most of the benefit going from i5 to i7 is because of more cores/threads; as P3D is still quite single core clockspeed dependent (it will only max two of my four cores) you're not going to see much benefit in P3D. The 8600K is still a young and fast processor, single core benchmarks suggest around 5% improvement replacing with a 9600k or 9700k. I'd recommend keeping the 8600K unless you're doing other stuff that would utilise the 40% improvement in multicore an i7 9700k seems to get (so video editing, CAD, heavy science stuff, crazy multitasking).

If you are moving from something older like i5 4690k then I think the i5 9600K is the sweetspot. You're getting a single core improvement of 20%+ and the price is near-as-makes-no-difference to the previous generation 8600K. As discussed above, i7 for P3D isn't worth it. And as regards OOMs, you need P3Dv4+.

Edited by ckyliu

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Thanks to everyone for the tips.  I'll give it a try with my rig and then go step by step afterwards.

How do I get photo scenery like Horizon UK, MegaScenery or Switzerland across from FSX to P3D and my also aircraft?  If I can, I suppose photo scenery may be to much for P3D on my rig.

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Posted (edited)

Horizon to photo scenery is actually less demanding because it has no 3D objects. Leave it installed and use Lorby's free addon tool to allow p3d to find it

Edited by ckyliu

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