Nice article by former Aces member

[Sartanius 399]

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

at launch is TOO LATE, way too late.  My expectations was the Alpha Tech would have some form of a working SDK that we developers could dig into and get acclimated to what is new and what is the same so we can be ready to roll at launch.  An SDK isn't something you just pickup in day and know exactly how everything works and what needs to be done (maybe there are some here that can do that and I'm just "slow" at reading 5000+ pages).

Cheers, Rob.

Hey Rob - Just saw this post here at Avsim.  Maybe, if accurate, the SDK will actually be out with the tech alpha release. 

Edit: Go to the 25:35 mark in the audio stream for MS's comment.

Edited September 30, 2019 by dmiannay

[pracines 823]

3 hours ago, w6kd said:

Biggest question marks for me are ATC and AI acft traffic, which seem to have been intentionally left out of the spotlight at the moment.

I agree these should be HUGE question marks for just about all of us. 

Even with simple VFR Flight, there is lots of communications - even on an intro flight. Unless one is flying out of a farm field to do local crop dusting there is always some form of communications that play a gigantic part in flight procedures and safety.  

Also, this new flight sim will get pretty boring fast without some AI & ATC activity/challenges especially if multiplayer is not a part of the experience at this time.

I can understand the complexity and depth of these and how MS wants to do things right, but it would amaze me if this new sim remains successful w/o AI and ATC.

Maybe the SDK will be complete enough to allow 3PP to finally do these two most important aspects, some very realistic and practical justice. 

 

[Pete Dowson 558]

2 hours ago, simbol said:

I haven't got any invite, you Rob? Neither anybody in the freeware community that I know.

Wouldn't you have to apply?

18 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Microsoft is committed to providing a software development kit (SDK) with the product at launch that will give developers the tools they need to build add-ons, though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates."

The video I've seen and this statement lead me to believe that the initial launch will be bare bones, with a few VFR capable aircraft, the weather, and of course their 2 Pbytes (!) scenery streaming with clever 'intelligent' autogen. The polishing and expanding from that will have to be considerable.

As for an SDK, I thought that, and a late Alpha release, would be winging their way to already signed-up developers pretty soon now.

But don't quote me on that. It's just an interpretation from all that i've read and seen in videos.

An interesting fact I gleaned from the videos is that the actual developers seem to be a French company! Maybe useful for us European developers!

Pete
 

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

21 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

So where is the metric that E3 full of "gamers" was more beneficial to MS than FSExpo and or all the other dedicated flight sim trade shows being brought to us by major FS developers over a decade or so?

I don't think you need a metric, presenting during a show where over 1 million people are watching is going to get the word out to more people than a niche show with a few thousand at most. Since many flight simmers play other games, you hit both markets in one pass. As well, the general audience of gamers buying this is important to fund future development of the features the hardcore FS community will want.

The fact that they're just now letting a select few try pre-alpha builds without taking their own pictures or video should make it clear that they aren't ready to get grilled by/interact with the general public yet. A simple trailer reveal at E3 was just what they needed to get the ball rolling early on. Everyone found out, and they reached out to devs in private. Sounds like a win-win.

[snglecoil 1,829]

Just curious to the developers who haven’t been invited to the party yet, have you reached out to MS and asked?
 

I saw a great talk on YouTube from Mark Patey saying, in effect, a lot of people miss opportunities because they are waiting on an invitation to participate. Sometimes you have to invite yourself. The answer could be “no”...but it could be “yes” too. 
 

One thing is clear from the event footage released today. This is a solid team, and the product is going to be something beyond a lot of expectations. But there will be gaps begging for third party involvement. We are counting on you guys! Go get ‘Em!

[dtrjones 356]

4 hours ago, Jim Young said:

That's what it states in the article.  I would suspect they are using a draft SDK?  I don't think they would develop the SDK first.  After the product has been tested and had its initial base release of MSFS.  As stated in the article, much of the new sim is based off of FSX.  Read the section, "What about all of my Third-Party Aircraft".

Hi Jim, surely the quote...

" committed to providing a software development kit (SDK) with the product at launch "

Says they are committed to produce the SDK at launch which means they will try and get it released at launch but it's no gaurentee.

[Jim Young 2,356]

2 minutes ago, dtrjones said:

Says they are committed to produce the SDK at launch

But everyone keeps forgetting to post the rest of the sentence: "though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates."

[dtrjones 356]

8 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

So why exclude the core then, I'm a gamer also and I've never gone to E3 or paid much attention to E3 mostly because it's the same stuff being regurgitated over and over and over in highly scripted closed off environments.  Besides, didn't MS announce FS in E3 2018 ... then silence.  I do get it, it's PR ... but there seems to be some disconnect somewhere along the line.  I've never heard of most of those folks invited to this event (with a few exceptions) and I've been doing this since 1982.

This is beginning to feel more like PC users are the experiment where the final destination is the new XBOX ... which I don't have a problem with, but I need the SDK like now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, not Nov 2020, but now, don't care if it's changing as I go, time is not on our sides.

Cheers, Rob.

I sympathise Rob but a Software Developer Kit it a curated portal by the developers into exposing certain features which can be modified in the sim. I guess they are working flat out but if it's not ready before then I guess it's not ready.

[simbol 5,862]

1 minute ago, snglecoil said:

Just curious to the developers who haven’t been invited to the party yet, have you reached out to MS and asked?

I signed to the tech alpha as everybody else.. MS said is reaching out to devs.. now if there is a way to contact them, it is not available to me.. so I can't. Having said that they read these forums and they quoted me once for one of the PR releases, so you would think they know I am here..

36 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Wouldn't you have to apply?

Ok how? if someone point me in the right direction I am happy to do so, I traveled 4,942 miles in 2018 just to participate in the Flight Sim Show in Vegas because I knew not only lots of simmers were going to attend but also Lockheed Martin and I wanted to ask Adam Breed face to face to allow me join to join their insider Beta program , which I did.. and that is how I got inside the LM Beta program, which as you have seen yourself via the LM insider program, it has very beneficial for both parties.. that is how committed I am in case anybody out there is wondering.

I guess I can travel to the next E3 show -Unless MS come to Cosford this weekend- and beg them to let me express my concerns as a developer in terms of their current SDK plans. Which if this article is correct, are not great.

S.

[dtrjones 356]

2 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

But everyone keeps forgetting to post the rest of the sentence: "though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates."

I interpreted polished and expanded as updates to the existing SDK (provided an launch) but the use of the word 'caution' could imply a delay if it's not ready I guess.

[speedyTC 206]

Wow. One thing I never expected to see in these fora...whingeing devs!

Good things come to those who wait. 😁

In my situation as a humble flight simmer, simple economics precluded me from being able to jump on the P3D bandwagon (much to my chagrin). At this moment in time I feel that this deprivation will pay off (unwittingly) as I can now plan my next machine with a bit more clarity. I will, of course, wait until we get more concrete news regarding legacy product compatibility with the new platform, at least for the initial stages. New products designed and built purely with the new sim in mind will be superb (going on the talent that third party devs have shown throughout the FSX / P3D era) and I, for one, will look forward to upgrading my older products with the new offerings eventually.

Cheers!

[thetford569 104]

Re:  The SDK and AI Traffic / ATC and other items....

I just listened to the flightsim.com podcast style interview with the developers which frankly was more interesting than some of the videos that have been produced as far as information.

The most interesting items I heard were:

An SDK will be released with the tech alpha.  They did not say if that would be a widespread release or if it would only be released to certain developers they are already speaking with.  But they did say an SDK would be available with the tech alpha.

AI traffic was mentioned as being turned off during the event in Seattle that everyone was flying.  They will have a system that will use real time AI traffic which is what we saw in the E3 trailer but they are working on it and it was turned off for now.

ATC was specifically mentioned as something they were just now talking about and that it’s very complex and they were looking at ways to possibly have regional voices with their sound people.  Nothing on ATC is set in stone and sounded like it was lower on the priority list.

They also mentioned that they were making a priority list based on feedback they’ve been seeing recently.  The number one on the priority list he said is VR support and they are looking at it because they didn’t really plan it before but he said it was clear that was a high priority based on feedback.  #2 on the “priority” list?  Seasonal support.

The interview was 30 minutes long and packed full of good info straight from the developers mouths.  I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Brandon

[snglecoil 1,829]

4 minutes ago, thetford569 said:

ATC was specifically mentioned as something they were just now talking about and that it’s very complex and they were looking at ways to possibly have regional voices with their sound people.  Nothing on ATC is set in stone and sounded like it was lower on the priority list.

I’m confident that ATC will eventually be delivered...but I’ve got to admit it is a little disappointing that it may not make an initial release. I know it is extremely complex and getting it right may be a better move than cramming the legacy ATC system in I suppose. 

[aleex 551]

13 minutes ago, thetford569 said:

AI traffic was mentioned as being turned off during the event in Seattle that everyone was flying.  They will have a system that will use real time AI traffic which is what we saw in the E3 trailer but they are working on it and it was turned off for now.

What I don’t get is how are they going to combine real traffic with ATC? 

Edited October 1, 2019 by aleex

[pracines 823]

I'm wondering, if/since ATC does not seem to be high on the priority list, MS is "testing" the community resolve about this. For the life of me I personally cannot perceive or be very interested in a flight "simulator" w/o ATC.

The Microsoft Employee (Paris), made it clear that they wanted our unbiased and frank opinions about what we know and what we want....

..Well if they could only see my face.... WHAT! no ATC? 😲😦😧😖😞🤯 and on and on.