So we now have seen a full on marketing blitz with a free flight lesson included for flight sim youtube talking heads but not for developers and a well we will have 3rd party stuff one day in the future after we figure out how to get our hands in their pockets. That approach did not work very well for Flight. Now let me think for a minute. Oh yes that was the start of "Flight" getting blown out of the water. I hope we don't go there again. 

12 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Personally, I'm not parking P3Dv4 for the foreseeable future...history suggests that it takes years of post-release development to flesh-out a sim's flying world...I was still on FS9 3-4 years after FSX released, and on FSX for 2-3 years after starting to build up my P3D world.  I'd guess I'll still have at least one foot in P3D for a few more years still.

+1

Well I feel disappointed, an SDK is fundamentally necessary to work with 3rd party developers.

If this is not available, then you cannot say you are supporting and engaging with 3rd party developers, both statements conflicts with each other.

Having an SDK on release date, means we developers will be finding issues on release date, problems with the SDK on release day, having to learn and ask for fixes on release day, the list goes on.. How is that good for Microsoft or anyone trying to deliver DLC content?

On this very topic are people that belong to the P3D beta testing group and they can testify how much issues I have found with P3D SDK in terms of the effect system and others areas since I joined last year (which Locked Martin has fixed diligently and I apreciate very much), which of course has delayed severely all my products releases. I cannot imagine the nightmare all content providers will need to go through with an unfinished SDK from MS as this article is implying.

And what is all that about of clear text flight parameters ? This means anyone can copy and edit someone else hard work?  Is this how MS is planning to support 3rd party developers?  Really? 

These news sounds so bad for any serious developer reading it, that the article cannot be true to be honest, but well.

I suggest to Microsoft if is reading this, to get serious with 3rd party developers and invite them as it has done with all these bloggers and media advertising in order to hear our thoughts. After all we are the ones expending and interacting with the simulator core for thousands of days and hours to extend it beyond its limits, we are the ones handling all the frustration from SDK modules that don't work as intended and yet we always manage to deliver, and lastly we have been the ones interacting with your simmers when things didn't work and you abandoned FSX.

So the least you can do is to listen to us...

Regards 

Simbol

49 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Microsoft is committed to providing a software development kit (SDK) with the product at launch that will give developers the tools they need to build add-ons

For those who think the SDK won't be there at launch... read that sentence above again.  Note the part I bolded.... 

9 minutes ago, simbol said:

So the least you can do is to listen to us...

 

9 minutes ago, simbol said:

I suggest to Microsoft if is reading this, to get serious with 3rd party developers and invite them as it has done with all these bloggers and media advertising in order to hear our thoughts.

Well, they did say they are already talking to developers to get them on board. As far as Froogle goes, he said it's the developers you would think they'd talk to so it appears there is more going on.

Just now, WarpD said:

For those who think the SDK won't be there at launch... read that sentence above again.  Note the part I bolded.... 

Yep, everyone seems to be missing this. They say they want to expand it post-launch too, which makes sense considering the sim will likely also change a decent amount based on feedback from the public. If the SDK was set in stone at launch, it would become useless pretty quickly. These aren't the days of FSX where a service pack came out a couple times and development was done. Devs getting in on MSFS early are going to have to accept that the sim will be a moving target, likely much more so than P3D and XP11.

30 minutes ago, simbol said:

I suggest to Microsoft if is reading this, to get serious with 3rd party developers and invite them as it has done with all these bloggers and media advertising in order to hear our thoughts.

How do we know this hasn’t already happened? I imagine this would have occurred before the Twitchers and Tubers got their golden tickets. 

6 minutes ago, deetee said:

How do we know this hasn’t already happened? I imagine this would have occurred before the Twitchers and Tubers got their golden tickets. 

Actually, we know it is happening already.

25 minutes ago, HughesMDflyer4 said:

Yep, everyone seems to be missing this. They say they want to expand it post-launch too, which makes sense considering the sim will likely also change a decent amount based on feedback from the public. If the SDK was set in stone at launch, it would become useless pretty quickly. These aren't the days of FSX where a service pack came out a couple times and development was done. Devs getting in on MSFS early are going to have to accept that the sim will be a moving target, likely much more so than P3D and XP11.

I am not missing anything, read my post again. I know the SDK is planned at launch time, that is the issue, that approach doesn't seem the best in my view, specially when the majority of the users are expecting our content to be available for this simulator on day one after the lunch.

Which by the way if this is the plan, it is not going to happen.. Be advised.

Regards 

S.

Thanks @vgbaron for posting this article. I found via another website. Between this article and video by FlightChops, I'm more encouraged than before. No fan boi here...of Microsoft or the "latest shiny object". 

PS one of the best overall discussions too. 

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

at launch is TOO LATE, way too late.

Yet, they did say they are talking to developers already and getting them on board. I see this doesn't imply an SDK will be ready before launch, but obviously something is being prepped with the full release still a year or so away.

10 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Actually, we know it is happening already.

Really?  I haven't got any invite, you Rob? Neither anybody in the freeware community that I know.. Which is a fair chunk 😏.

I hope my good friend Kai and his team from alpha india group at least makes it to the alpha tech, him and an entire team of devs at AIG has been supporting for free the AI world for FSX for years.. Don't you think him and his team deserved more to get hands on the sim than a blogger? 

S.

Edited September 30, 20196 yr by simbol

If you haven't gotten an invite... you're not a developer that they're interested in... or they haven't approached anyone (though I thought they'd stated they had already started reaching out to developers).

The SDK gets released when they want it to be.  It's their sim, it's their party... it's their choice.  I personally view it as good that they intend to provide one at all.

54 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I hope you are correct ... I get the PR war ... news day before FSExpo yet no MS rep at Expo, another PR preview to the "select few" the week before Cosford ... the pattern if fairly obvious.  But this doesn't encourage developers, just the opposite ... it's like they are being punished for enduring all these years. 

at launch is TOO LATE, way too late.  My expectations was the Alpha Tech would have some form of a working SDK that we developers could dig into and get acclimated to what is new and what is the same so we can be ready to roll at launch.  An SDK isn't something you just pickup in day and know exactly how everything works and what needs to be done (maybe there are some here that can do that and I'm just "slow" at reading 5000+ pages).

Cheers, Rob.

If you had to chose to show it to a bunch of "old simmers" and a potentially millions big market such as the one represented by E3 (where Microsoft would have been also already present with other products by the way), you would go for FSExpo? I really don't think so.

As for the selected few, i think they invited everyone worthy. As in, everyone that moves the crowds around and have a decently followed channel about flight sims. Who do you think deserved to come but wasn't? I don't follow all the youtubers and streamers but those i follow went there pretty much.

We know that Microsoft have been in touch with some time with the main developers, i don't think it is only to receive their feedback and i would honestly expect MS to "teach" devs to a certain point on how developing for MSFS will be like, what will be needed and perhaps get an early access to the SDK compared to what every user will get access to it (at release)

Edited September 30, 20196 yr by france89

2 hours ago, WarpD said:

For those who think the SDK won't be there at launch... read that sentence above again.  Note the part I bolded.... 

Here's what the sentence states in the article.  You forgot the end of the sentence - " In addition, Microsoft is committed to providing a software development kit (SDK) with the product at launch that will give developers the tools they need to build add-ons, though they caution that it is something that will be polished and expanded through post-launch updates."