Nice article by former Aces member

[mr340 56]

Maybe they should try the LIVE AI traffic , if it was possible in P3D why wouldn't this be possible with their new sim .

[Mace 1,957]

I agree, a basic ATC system should be in there.

If the ATC functionally is equal to what shipped with FSX, I would be a touch disappointed, but not terribly so, as long as 3rd parties can fill the void.

If the ATC functionality is what shipped with FSX + SIDs and STARs, or FSX + regional accents,  I would be pretty satisfied.

If the ATC functionality is what shipped with FSX + SIDs and STARs + regional accents, I would be quite happy. 

The thought is that the 3rd party devs could always create their own (better) ATC systems, assuming the SDK allows it (and it should). I've always been of the mind that out-of-box ATC is way lower on my list of sim priorities, (even though I like using Pilot2ATC and take my phraseology seriously).   However, you can't fly a sim or mess with ATC if the sim stutters and pauses.  So to me, smoothness is Job One, and everything else is secondary.

[B777ER 2,492]

6 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

So the plan is wait for Nov 2020 release, have an unpolished SDK (maybe), take 1-2 years or more adapting to a changing SDK and hope that money falls off trees to fund these projects?  And this is going to be good how or is this entire "time travel" thing something we should have developed a long time ago?

Cheers, Rob.

You make a lot of assumptions. Where does it say Nov 2020? Unpolished SDK? 1 to 2 years of adaptation? I know you're a LM die-hard but your sky is falling verbiage over an SDK for a product likely a year from release is pointless.

[BlueStar 323]

Always remember this is the same company that brought us BOB.   🤣

 

 

[thetford569 104]

1 hour ago, aleex said:

What I don’t get is how are they going to combine real traffic with ATC? 

This could be one of the reasons they are trying to still "figure it out".  I would like to see at least a basic implementation of ATC that is expandable by SDK so someone talented could at least take the ball and run with it.  However I would more like to see at least the same level of ATC that was in FSX with some improvements to things like AI separation, ATIS working farther away than 60 miles or whatever it was, the unbelievable amount of go-arounds, etc.  The FSX default ATC was actually pretty good for it's time.  If they could make improvements to it and use it as a basis that someone else could expand upon that would be a good start.

In my dream world they actually put some dedicated development into ATC and build a new system from the ground up that works with the AI and also mirrors the real world.  Even if that's not in at release but is something that they plan to do soon then I would be ok with that!

 

Brandon

[ozpilot 5]

Agree - excellent article

 

[pracines 823]

2 hours ago, Mace said:

If the ATC functionally is equal to what shipped with FSX, I would be a touch disappointed, but not terribly so, as long as 3rd parties can fill the void.

If the ATC functionality is what shipped with FSX + SIDs and STARs, or FSX + regional accents,  I would be pretty satisfied.

If the ATC functionality is what shipped with FSX + SIDs and STARs + regional accents, I would be quite happy. 

Yes, I agree with this kind of thinking. But to take it a step further: 

This gave me the idea that since its really inevitable that ATC will not just go away for the sake of very awesome scenery, I wonder if at least a basic FSX ATC system could be put in place until a more realistic situation can be developed. We are a reasonable community as a whole, and we do understand the complexity of the matter. But in the mean time to have no ATC , simply will not be acceptable, for day to day use.  

The main thing is, not sticking with the outdated (but quite good for its time in FS2002) FSX ATC system, because that limitation is why we don't have a 3PP add-on that is adequate enough currently. We have AI packages that have tons of traffic but the AI and ATC logic cannot handle it realistically/practically.

 

[carbonbasedlifeform 179]

How many developers are going to upgrade their products for free? I can’t imagine if will be a lot.

[pracines 823]

10 minutes ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

How many developers are going to upgrade their products for free? I can’t imagine if will be a lot.

A good question, and many possibilities.

As wonderful as this new sim is looking, and if the new SDK is most excellent and complete (making it easy to port), there may be a celebration among the developers. Porting the older products into the new sim for free or little cost as a way to get simmers on board in mass, to await the massive possibilities of the next 10 years. 

If the SDK is cumbersome and limited, and the new sim has too many feature limitations compared to what we currently have, then the cost of porting goes up. 

That's just a couple out of thousands of possibilities. And different developers will have their own ideas.

[pmb 5,138]

7 hours ago, thetford569 said:

Re:  The SDK and AI Traffic / ATC and other items....

I just listened to the flightsim.com podcast style int71erview with the developers which frankly was more interesting than some of the videos that have been produced as far as information.

Thanks Brandon, for the clear and concise info, much acknowledged. Notably, I am happy about the VR statement. While I am not one of the "I will reject MFS without VR" fanatics, I would certainly enjoy being able to use my headset from day 1.

Kind regards, Michael

[Dominique_K 10,152]

8 hours ago, simbol said:

I traveled 4,942 miles in 2018 just to participate in the Flight Sim Show in Vegas because....I wanted to ask Adam Breed face to face 

S.

London to Bordeaux is only 450-odd nm 😉

[pmb 5,138]

3 hours ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

How many developers are going to upgrade their products for free? I can’t imagine if will be a lot.

Developers will have to go through tough times. They will never admit it, but sales for P3D, XP, not to mention AeroflyFS addons will drop drastically during the next months. On the other hand, they will have to adapt to and invest into development for the new platform. And no one knows which conditions MS will place for add-on developers. Moreover, some of them will have difficulty to find a place for their products in the new environment at all.

In view of this, I see them more than justified to take an at least moderate upgrade fee for their products. I even think a number of smaller (typically 1-man) developers will go out of business.

Kind regards, Michael

[simbol 5,832]

2 minutes ago, domkle said:

London to Bordeaux is only 450-odd nm 😉

You suggest I go there and bang on the door? 

[Dominique_K 10,152]

Just now, simbol said:

You suggest I go there and bang on the door? 

a telephone call first might help 😁 . Asobo is on Twitter too but I don’t know if they activated the PM functionality.

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

11 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

"old simmers" are somehow bad ... hopefully you took notice of the age of some of the developers working on the new MFS?  Anyway, I don't care old or new simmers nor old or new developers, but I would venture from a spending perspective, "old simmers" have more disposable money to spend and the time to spend it as repeat customers ... if you look at AS's Navigraph data from 2018 survey, the demographics shows the age range 20-25 as being the highest number of respondents with age dropping off drastically by 75+.

So where is the metric that E3 full of "gamers" was more beneficial to MS than FSExpo and or all the other dedicated flight sim trade shows being brought to us by major FS developers over a decade or so?  If it was for PR, why not make a presence in all established FS trade shows as well as E3?  I do agree, bring in the gamers, good for all ... but seems to me MS are stuck in that a PC is currently the only hardware that can handle their new MFS and the new XBOX will not be out until late 2020 and the current XBOX just isn't up to the task (especially at 4K).  So it's sorta a forced marriage so to speak. 

How do you move a crowd?  More importantly why would anyone want to "move a crowd"?  I publish many YouTube videos that are NOT monetized and I don't try to "move a crowd", I try to help people work around issues and get the best out of their hardware.  Many of the YouTubers and streamers seem to be doing it entirely for money or else why monetize and endless adverts?

Cheers, Rob.

We are all old simmers, regardless of our biological age. A new simulator cannot survive only thanks to us.

Are you telling me that 15k people (those who answered the Navigraph data) are going to give more visibility to a new simulator than the MILLIONS, read it again, MILLIONS of the game industry either following E3 directly, following the E3 coverage and what not?
If you claim to be a gamer but never checked E3, i have bad news for you. I understand not being interested in all of them, but there are some mainstream games you either should have heard about or be excited about. I agree on the fact they could have covered both, but there must have been another reason for that on which we know nothing about and can't know nothing about. What is left however is how simmers are irrelevant compared to the huge pool of gamers out there who could potentially tap into the flight simulator genre. Just like they did with older microsoft flight simulators.

As for crowd moving, well, i think a good chunk of them for example has if not daily at least weekly streams and those have been quite relevant to marketing way more than youtube videos. Doesn't matter what they do it for as long as it gives it visibility to Microsoft.

I assume MS will give out documentation and contact the major developers (it's already happening after all) to also see what they can think of bringing to their new simulator, what their needs are and how they can try to help them develop third party content. Why now when they didn't before? Because 13 years passed since the last complete entertainment only flight simulator. Things change.

9 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

This is beginning to feel more like PC users are the experiment where the final destination is the new XBOX ... which I don't have a problem with, but I need the SDK like now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, not Nov 2020, but now, don't care if it's changing as I go, time is not on our sides.

Cheers, Rob.

You mean like LM is using "simmers" regarding Prepar3D?
You'll get the SDK when they are ready for you to use it. They create the market for your work, not the opposite. Without them there is no market for you to tap into. Besides, we know they are already in contact with some developers and i am sure they also have every intention to facilitate their work and let third party content come in.

Edited October 1, 2019 by france89