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RALF9636

Morphing and popping

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The mesh and texture popping of different levels of detail always has been one of the biggest immersion killers for me in P3D.

Unfortunately this can be seen again in the MSFS videos - as already has been mentioned by others several times in other threads.

I just wanted to give it its own topic so that it does not get out of view.

 

I do assume Asobo is aware of it and is working on some less noticeable fading / morphing technique. But then again LM apparently never considered it an issue that is worth working on, so I just want to make sure Asobo is aware that this should be something of a high priority. So anybody who also considers this important chime in here.

I really don't want to see this immersion killing popping in the new sim again.

 

Edited by RALF9636
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Caching has nothing to do with this, its  a LOD issue. If you were to render every trees 100km around with a high level of detail you would need an unpractical  amount of memory and graphics power to store the data and render it. It just can't be done with current computers. All you can hope for is a smooth transition between different levels of detail.

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6 minutes ago, 238932 said:

Caching has nothing to do with this, its  a LOD issue. If you were to render every trees 100km around with a high level of detail you would need an unpractical  amount of memory and graphics power to store the data and render it. It just can't be done with current computers. All you can hope for is a smooth transition between different levels of detail.

Exactly... I'm no expert but I don't think this is an issue of P3D fixing it or any new flight simulator. It is just an issue of graphics cards themselves. Not much can be done about it. With your "normal mainstream" games, only a small bubble around the viewpoint is rendered. Flight simulators are unique as we are trying to render an entire region. Processing power is just not there yet.


Is it done yet? When will it be released? Will it be freeware or payware? How much will it be? Any updates on the progress? Will it work for FSX? What's the minimum requirements? Can I be a beta tester?

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I´ve always thought it was a streaming issue in this case (more morphing than popping) since you have the same effect on google earth with a bad connection.

cheers

Carlos


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I fully agree to the OP that morphing is one of the most annoying features of Prepar3d today. You're immediantely made clear: This can't be reality! If this morphing will be transferred to MFS indeed, this would be a major immersion killer, in my eyes. It was with us in FSX and even FSW had it. And, yes, I observed it in the recent MFS video clips as well.

I don't think this is a necessary feature of flight simulators, though, but a special weakness of the MS (FSX/ESP) engine. X-Plane as well as AeroflyFS2, both being based on different terrain engines, do (nearly) never show it. And if it happens at all (as I said, according to my observation very rearly) it's much less noticeable.

Kind regards, Michael 

Edited by pmb
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MSFS, P3D Professional 5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

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4 minutes ago, pmb said:

I don't think this is is a necessary feature of flight simulators, though, but a special weakness of the MS (FSX/ESP) engine. 

 

 

That's what I also have always been thinking, so I was actually quite surprised and concerned to see it again in the MSFS videos. 

 

Edited by RALF9636

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44 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

 

I really don't want to see this immersion killing popping in the new sim again.

 I am with you here. This is not a minor issue Asobo could sweep under the rug. The flaw is much more an eye sore than in a P3D LC+mesh context. As good as the latter can be, the graphics are a little coarse anyway, it is easier to accept imperfections, FS20 makes a point to render a much finer grain and  that calls for almost absolute stability. No morphing and popping. 

19 minutes ago, PWJT8D said:

 Processing power is just not there yet.

 Is it a question of processing power or RAM/VRAM capacity ? In any case, this is a reason why I think it is too early to think of specs for a new hardware.

Edited by domkle

Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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15 minutes ago, pmb said:

I fully agree to the OP that morphing is one of the most annoying features of Prepar3d today. You're immediantely made clear: This can't be reality! If this morphing will be transferred to MFS indeed, this would be a major immersion killer, in my eyes. 

+1   That's the reason why I'm e.g. flying in the alps only in Aerofly FS2. The morphing mountains are a really immersion killer. Looks like constant rockfall!

IF the new flightsim will have this problem, I'll have to stay in flat nearly uninhabitated areas like Unalakleet, Homer etc...at least these should be framerate friendly areas 😉

Edited by FDEdev

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It's not only a problem with mountains. In the videos you can see the photogrammetry buildings changing their shape when getting closer, and I have even seen the photorealistic ground textures change their colour between LODs in one of yesterday's clips.

Edited by RALF9636
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24 minutes ago, pmb said:

I don't think this is is a necessary feature of flight simulators, though, but a special weakness of the MS (FSX/ESP) engine. 

This is quite troubling if its true. This means that we might be exposed to some of the other inherent bugs of the esp engine? But how is it possible ? Didnt they say they are using a completely new graphics engine? Maybe there is still a little bit of esp code used ? Lots of ambiguities and unanswered questions here.

Edited by Baber20

Baber

 

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This is what ETOPS was designed for.

In all seriousness I totally agree. I thought I was imagining it the first few times I saw it. It also seems to appear at random distances. In some of the lower level flying videos there was a degree of morphing on buildings / parking lots / whatever just half a mile or so in front when textures a little further away were already high res. I notice it more at about 45 degrees from heading, but that might just be me.

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19 minutes ago, domkle said:

 

The flaw is much more an eye sore than in a P3D LC+mesh context. As good as the latter can be, the graphics are a little coarse anyway, it is easier to accept imperfections, FS20 makes a point to render a much finer grain and  that calls for almost absolute stability. No morphing and popping. 

True, it is even more eye-catching in the new sim.

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24 minutes ago, Baber20 said:

This is quite troubling if its true. This means that we might be exposed to some of the other inherent bugs of the esp engine? But how is it possible ? Didnt they say they are using a completely new graphics engine? Maybe there is still a little bit of esp code used ? Lots of ambiguities and unanswered questions here.

In one of the videos or articles (don't recall which one among the flood) devs stated explicitely they reused parts of FSX code which they considered "good".

Kind regards, Michael


MSFS, P3D Professional 5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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5 minutes ago, pmb said:

In one of the videos or articles (don't recall which one among the flood) devs stated explicitely they reused parts of FSX code which they considered "good".

Kind regards, Michael

As I remember, it was in the context of flight modeling.

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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