13 hours ago, domkle said:

 

We don't know the business model, crudely said where the money will come from. Initial price, subscription, DLC (addons and/or major upgrade à la P3D) ?  

I can imagine there will be a MSFS2020, MSFS2022, MSFS2024. Like all popular game series they should be able to sell new versions on a frequent time frame. What is the release cycle for P3D? 2-3 years?

The question is how many of the "big features" they can push out to the next release without stirring the forum pot too much 🙂 Maybe VR will be the main selling point for MSFS2022?

29 minutes ago, espent said:

I can imagine there will be a MSFS2020, MSFS2022, MSFS2024. Like all popular game series they should be able to sell new versions on a frequent time frame. What is the release cycle for P3D? 2-3 years?

The question is how many of the "big features" they can push out to the next release without stirring the forum pot too much 🙂 Maybe VR will be the main selling point for 

The title of the game is microsoft flight simulator, not fs2020

I reckon they will keep the same base game. Perhaps they will release some dlc over time but I doubt they will go with new versions.

3 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

I reckon they will keep the same base game. Perhaps they will release some dlc over time but I doubt they will go with new versions.

That would be a first in flight sim history... They need to have a constant cash flow to keep the team big enough. Not sure if some DLC's would be enough for that

40 minutes ago, espent said:

That would be a first in flight sim history... They need to have a constant cash flow to keep the team big enough. Not sure if some DLC's would be enough for that

First in flight sim, not in the gaming community. Streaming world data is also a first In flight sim history

The scenery will constantly be improving as bings quality improves.   This has been announced as a ten year project.

When releasing a new version people expect generational leaps.  What improvements can they bring? The engine is solid (and will only perform better as next gen cpu's and graphics cards come out), the scenery quality will already improve as bing improves, the flight model is solid.

I predict the business model will be about selling enhancements and dlc, maybe operating an official store for 3rd party add-on makers to use. I believe microsoft has said windows 10 will be final, and any improvements will stay as windows 10 but come as upgrades.  I think they will do similar here.

Look at Minecraft. It's a cash cow for Microsoft.  They make a ton of money through the Minecraft marketplace. There's no Minecraft 2, or Minecraft 3.

My big gripe with current simulators,  they slowly make all these improvements and versions (xplane 11.4) then at some point need to do a jump to version 12. This requires buying the base game again, requires the add-on makers to re release there add-ons for v12, then requires you to buy all these add-ons.

7 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

First in flight sim, not in the gaming community. Streaming world data is also a first In flight sim history

The scenery will constantly be improving as bings quality improves.   This has been announced as a ten year project.

I don't think selling a million copies (or however many they will sell) for  USD 60 in 2020 will be enough to finance the game for 10 years.

7 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

When releasing a new version people expect generational leaps.  What improvements can they bring? The engine is solid (and will only perform better as next gen cpu's and graphics cards come out), the scenery quality will already improve as bing improves, the flight model is solid.

This sounds like the infamous Bill Gates quote when he said that 640kb will be enough for everyone. The simulator in 2030 will be much more advanced then what is released next year.

7 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

I predict the business model will be about selling enhancements and dlc, maybe operating an official store for 3rd party add-on makers to use. I believe microsoft has said windows 10 will be final, and any improvements will stay as windows 10 but come as upgrades.  I think they will do similar here.

Look at Minecraft. It's a cash cow for Microsoft.  They make a ton of money through the Minecraft marketplace. There's no Minecraft 2, or Minecraft 3.

Minecraft has almost 100 million players monthly. We all hope Flight Simulator will be a huge success, but I don't think we can expect these kind of numbers.

I think it is more realistic to compare it to other Microsoft titles like Forza Motorsport/Horizon, or sport titles like FIFA.

 

Anyway it is interesting to see other points of view on this topic. Its all just a guessing game now.

"The simulator in 2030 will be much more advanced then what is released next year. "

 

that's definitely correct - I'm deleting all my sims and waiting till 2030.

5 minutes ago, SteveW said:

"The simulator in 2030 will be much more advanced then what is released next year. "

 

that's definitely correct - I'm deleting all my sims and waiting till 2030.

🙂 I would like to see the simmer with that kind of will power these days. Looks like people are ready to walk through fire and sacrifice family members to get access to the Alpha test (myself included).

On 12/1/2019 at 3:16 AM, Scottoest said:

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a lot of salt flying around, since the announcement of MSFS?

...

1) A lot of either dismissiveness or outright hostility to MSFS - ranging from the predictable stuff (ie. "it'll be a game, not a sim", "remember MS Flight?"), to more nebulous hostility that seems to stem from the perceived threat it poses to sims like P3D and XP (I guess?).

...

That's just one side of the medal. My feeling is quite the opposite, that FS2020 is generally seen as the holy grail.

There are places on the Internet where you get downvoted/unliked/pitchforked-out-of-the-village to oblivion if you only raise the slightest criticism towards FS2020, no matter if it's constructive or just sarcasm.

 

2 hours ago, espent said:

I don't think selling a million copies (or however many they will sell) for  USD 60 in 2020 will be enough to finance the game for 10 years.

This sounds like the infamous Bill Gates quote when he said that 640kb will be enough for everyone. The simulator in 2030 will be much more advanced then what is released next year.

Minecraft has almost 100 million players monthly. We all hope Flight Simulator will be a huge success, but I don't think we can expect these kind of numbers.

I think it is more realistic to compare it to other Microsoft titles like Forza Motorsport/Horizon, or sport titles like FIFA.

 

Anyway it is interesting to see other points of view on this topic. Its all just a guessing game now.

You could be right, that was just my prediction.  1 version and then a way to monetize it

On 12/1/2019 at 7:37 AM, Rob_Ainscough said:

Sorry but none of the above is accurate.

I love what I see ... this issue is pretty simple.  Developers kept the MS platform alive and their/our rewards was a PR campaign that took us all by surprise ... 6 months later and still nothing delivered.  Timing is key.

Its got nothing to do with the new sim itself, its how the PR campaign was prematurely delivered that has triggered so much angst.  This left many developers with products they’ve invested considerable money into that will likely not recover the projected income to earn a profit or break even.  It could have been managed much better and all drama could have been avoided, but it wasn’t.

So as with most things its about lost investments/money.

It really has got nothing to do with the new sim itself, that looks to be pretty awesome IMHO.

Cheers, Rob

 

I have no doubt that developers kept MS platform alive, but don't forget that we (simmers/consumers) kept developers alive by purchasing (some times) their half cooked products and we accepted and lived with that (half glass full theory), therefor engorging a new sim era is the right for every one (developers and simmers) alike, and they can take the early announcement as they like (negative or positive) simply because we were trapped in outdated technology for a long time (and people got very used to it from every angle) and the time has come to breath a fresh start (again, positive or negative) as you see it fit your needs or state of denial (from developer perspective and from a consumer perspective) that is called resistance of change which includes sacrifices to overcome, so let us stop accusing each other and lets march to the new era with full support from every one to every one with open minds.

P.S. my old sim(s) are still in my PC including every single add-on I have, therefor my past investments are safe and looking forward to a totally new experience and a new investment (I hope).

15 hours ago, dal330200 said:

I never felt comfortable giving my money to a defense contractor to begin with

I personally never took issue with that, after all, we need defense contractors to build the planes, ships and weapons to keep us safe, no?

If your a US citizen your already giving money to them anyway, albeit indirectly but though your tax payments and deductions which the government uses to pay them. In the case of buying P3D your just giving it directly to them in exchange for software.

36 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

I personally never took issue with that, after all, we need defense contractors to build the planes, ships and weapons to keep us safe, no?

 

I would go beyond that. I find it comforting to think that my sim is backed by a leading aerospace contractor, known for its competence in building aircraft, imagery satellites and AI software and which has its main  customer base  in the aeronautical sector.

2 hours ago, domkle said:

I would go beyond that. I find it comforting to think that my sim is backed by a leading aerospace contractor, known for its competence in building aircraft, imagery satellites and AI software and which has its main  customer base  in the aeronautical sector.

Lockmart also runs FSS nowadays so does a lot of work for GA. 

23 minutes ago, Peter Clark said:

Lockmart also runs FSS nowadays so does a lot of work for GA. 

I don't understand your post, Peter.

 

EDIT I see what you mean now, I didn't see the news about the US FSS network. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by domkle

Dated Feb 2007

Quote

Lockheed Martin is scheduled to take over operation of Flight Service Stations today in what the company promises to be a seamless transition.
In February the FAA awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to provide FSS services now offered by the agency’s 58 automated flight service stations in the continental U.S.
[...]
Once Lockheed Martin finishes its work, FSS specialists must answer telephone calls within 20 seconds and radio calls within 15 seconds. They must also process flight plans in three minutes and pireps within 30 seconds of receipt, according to AOPA. Nearly all of the 2,000 FSS specialists, formerly FAA employees, will remain on the job as employees of Lockheed Martin.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/2007-02-16/lockheed-martin-taking-over-fss-system