1 minute ago, RalphBartsch said:

Photogrammetry is not obtained by satellites but by airplanes, because all objects have to be photographed by an angle from different sides - which can not be done by satellite. Weather and light in XP 11 looks better than in FSX, of course (especially because of the much more realistic haze) but are far from reality and much worse than what we see in the FS 2020 preview videos.

The snow in the screen shots looks incredibly bad. Linking to the X-Plane forum only showed that x-plane will not be able to compete against FS 2020.

But why again are you discussing X-Plane?

Just correcting whoever it was claiming it didnt do things it does.

like snow autogen.

and also.

the photogrammetry is generally satellite lidar based, supplimented with aircraft only when better than 1cm accuracy is required. Although airborne is often less accurate (but cheaper)

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

 

visibility and weather in xp11 has matched every one of my real life flights, so no idea what you are complaining about.

Fine for you. I can’t say the same when even foggy metars aren’t read well by XP. Not talking about ugly clouds or default green ground sceneries. 

3 hours ago, Shack95 said:

According to flightforum.ch this info is from the Alpha forum. Further down in the same thread it says that it has been denied by another alleged MS-insider. Who knows...

There's a 0% chance Asobo or Microsoft have given price or subscription information to their alpha testers, haha.  Just more word not allowed percolating in the information vacuum.

And the percent chance of MSFS carrying a subscription anywhere in the galaxy of 20 to 50 euros per month, is a negative integer.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

 

but no, hi resolution photogrammetry is absolutely available for the whole world, satelites have been churning out that data at 1cm accuracy into bing for a decade now.

it is a surprise they arent actually using much of that.

 

Sorry, that's your next big mistake 🙂 Satelite data are not a photogrametry!!! It is only a orthophoto. Photogrametry needs taking photos at much lower heights, than space orbit. It always needs taking data by plane the flying not too high and every point on the ground must be taken from a few different angles and directions. Therefore, only about 400 cities have been processed for now.

29 minutes ago, ludekbrno said:

Sorry, that's your next big mistake 🙂 Satelite data are not a photogrametry!!!

lidar in satelites have been giving height/lat/long accurate to 1cm3 from 600km altitude since at least 1997.

At least the Russian (and European) satelites have (used a lot for mapping their forests), maybe American sats just not that good?

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by mSparks

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

lidar in satelites have been giving height/lat/long accurate to 1cm3 from 600km altitude since at least 1997.

At least the Russian (and European) satelites have (used a lot for mapping their forests), maybe American sats just not that good?

Photogrametry needs PHOTOS, not a lidar data. It is not possible generate a 3D model of buildings without photos of every side, because it needs a textures. So again, photogrametry cities are not product of sattelites, but planes. Plane flying around and over the city, takes high number of shots from diferrent directions and then a special software make a 3D model of the city.

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

but no, hi resolution photogrammetry is absolutely available for the whole world, satelites have been churning out that data at 1cm accuracy into bing for a decade now.

it is a surprise they arent actually using much of that.

ace combat 7 ps4 vr for a year.

you bought it?

visibility and weather in xp11 has matched every one of my real life flights, so no idea what you are complaining about.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/46982-seasons-winter-xp11/

so again, no idea what you are complaining about.

so you think AI scanning has surpassed humans?

think that remains to be seen.

such as, nothing so far.

exactly "just this"

1% of the scenery apparently, so.....

Photogrammetry for the whole world... by Satellites... 1cm??? Oh dear... I think there are a lot of bizarre illusions in the air... No comment... Already answered by someone else...

Ace Combat 7 uses a modern, new gen engine yes!... nice modern GAME just like many other modern games....I thought you were focused on simulators like XP11 ??

You really think and sincerely as a real pilot that XP11 engine has a top notch convincing life like weather that gives you the same experience, look and feel and challenges like real flying? Oh Well.... If you convince yourself that it is so then fine.... We can convince ourselves with so many things indeed... But objective people, those who fly as well, know and admit it is primitive, simplistic and dull... Even Austin himsef (who is a real pilot as you know) called his clouds and weather "pathetic" when he previewed XEnviro 1.1...

Oh, I know very very well the old school way of making snow happens in XP.... So many packages available for free on the org. So now, you are comparing snow packages activated and added manually just like a scenery package or through a quirky script, to an out of the box dynamic precipitation?? Even SAM does not match a core weather producing dynamic effects. Tell me also that the default rain of XP11 is like real life?! Or like the rain we saw in the Asobo engine? Now please don't send me a link to another plugin or addon, we talk about the default engine's features here... 

XEnviro 1.1 is the only plugin that is trying to make dynamic weather, volumetric clouds and precipitation with seasons happen in XP11... My favorite solution to date for XP yet it is not working 100% and quirky as well... 

Out of the box, XP11 weather is lame, as I said, even Laminar knows and admit it... 

And yes if you know anything about AI scanning you know that yes it surpasses a super league of humans working hundreds and hundreds of hours to produce millions of footprints, vegetation coverage etc.

Now please tell us also the default planet/world of XP11 is so rich and realistic and matches what you see in a real flight?

Sir, I know XP11 way more than you think, as I said, I create stuff for it...

But I think we all know that denial produces such weird arguments...

 

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by Claviateur

15 minutes ago, ludekbrno said:

Photogrametry needs PHOTOS, not a lidar data. It is not possible generate a 3D model of buildings without photos of every side, because it needs a textures. So again, photogrametry cities are not product of sattelites, but planes. Plane flying around and over the city, takes high number of shots from diferrent directions and then a special software make a 3D model of the city.

pretty sure the topic title is

No More Photogrammetry Trees?

13 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

but no, hi resolution photogrammetry is absolutely available for the whole world, satelites have been churning out that data at 1cm accuracy into bing for a decade now.

it is a surprise they arent actually using much of that.

ace combat 7 ps4 vr for a year.

you bought it?

visibility and weather in xp11 has matched every one of my real life flights, so no idea what you are complaining about.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/46982-seasons-winter-xp11/

so again, no idea what you are complaining about.

so you think AI scanning has surpassed humans?

think that remains to be seen.

such as, nothing so far.

exactly "just this"

1% of the scenery apparently, so.....

Photogrammetry for the whole world... by Satellites... 1cm??? Oh dear... I think there are a lot of bizarre illusions in the air...

yeah, you know, like (only from space)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by mSparks

23 minutes ago, mSparks said:

pretty sure the topic title is

No More Photogrammetry Trees?

yeah, you know, like

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam

Yes thanks, now tell me please again how Lidar data is produced? I think I am in a dream here...

6 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Yes thanks, now tell me please again how Lidar data is produced? I think I am in a dream here...

another thing that happened in the last 20 years was a little thing called google.

if you type lidar satelite into it you can find out all about CALIPSO and

https://www.rezatec.com/lidar-vs-satellites/

all of which goes under the collective name of "photogrammetry"

you might want to type that into google to.

Lidar Data

Lidar (light detection and ranging) is an optical remote-sensing technique that uses laser light to examine the surface of the earth. Benefits of Lidar data include having high accuracy and good detail, however there are several drawbacks. Firstly, due to the labour-intensive process of collecting the data the costs are very high, this would typically include aircraft, employment costs and equipment

 

 

aircraft = no satellite. 

Did X-Plane ever get buildings at any of the airports? The two versions I purchased (9 &10) had none. The Vulkan version of X-Plane (should it ever be completed and released) will be the moral equivalent of the 64-bit version of P3D (v4) -- big hype before release but no discernible improvement in performance to the average user. MSFS2020 is the future. Face it! Enjoy it! Be glad about it! I am.

This thread is embarrassing. I hope ms/Asobo are not reading it. 95% of people who buy the product (myself included) wont care much about the trees. I dont plan to fly within 5 feet of them or pull out my binoculars and start looking for squirrels in the branches.

The original posters comments were valid but it's gone down hill since then.

Edited January 4, 20206 yr by sanh

19 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Did X-Plane ever get buildings at any of the airports? The two versions I purchased (9 &10) had none. The Vulkan version of X-Plane (should it ever be completed and released) will be the moral equivalent of the 64-bit version of P3D (v4) -- big hype before release but no discernible improvement in performance to the average user. MSFS2020 is the future. Face it! Enjoy it! Be glad about it! I am.

Xplane 11 yes! There is a scenery gateway website where contributors can upload airport scenery and its added to future xplane updates. Most xplane airports are basic payware quality when compared to p3d. They have airport buildings and jet ways. Taxi ways have lights on the side. There are cars parked and other clutter around the airport. 

Agree though fs2020 is next level. It takes me 45mins to create Orthoxp scenery at zl18 just for one tile around my destination airport and it does not look as good as fs2020 even then.

Edited January 5, 20206 yr by sanh

5 hours ago, Claviateur said:

Asobo's engine beats the actual XP11 engine in so many different fields/aspects.

I agree if we're talking about the world outside the cockpit. No question it's a game-changer, and the main part of that is shifting ortho-based scenery from local storage to online streaming. 

But let's not go overboard just yet. We still don't know anything about what happens inside the cockpit -- how the the aerodynamics, engine and systems modeling compares to FSX/P3D and X-Plane. There are simmers who care just as much, or even more about that aspect as they do about the world outside the aircraft.

It's way too early to know how MSFS will fare in that respect. They have a dynamite scenery engine, but the aircraft flying within that engine will have to prove that they're competitive.