No More Photogrammetry Trees?

[Bottle 663]

[mSparks 2,086]

48 minutes ago, ual763 said:

not to mention the awful performance

vulkan delivers better performance than dx11.

So what makes you think msfs2020 will be able to deliver any better?

Surely not the photogrammetry videos with 12 triangle blocky trees?

Edited January 4, 2020 by mSparks

[viz 139]

Photogrammetry covers a small portion of the globe at present but will be constantly expanded and improved upon over time. The issues with it will always remain however, it is static - usually for years at a time.

Microsoft clearly want to build a dynamic simulator packed with as much life (ie: live data) as they can feasibly implement, and are using AI to add/replace/modify assets as appropriate. Besides weather/animals/traffic etc, we've seen the use of satellite augmentation (buildings/trees/roads/rivers/bridges etc) and photogrammetry augmentation (night illumination/bridges/procedural trees). Hopefully the photogrammetry will eventually get reflections/texture improvements but static trees in particular are a significant barrier to dynamic weather and - by extension - seasons. It should be no surprise they are being worked on.

[anden145 2,285]

1 hour ago, highflyer2020 said:

 

lol what did you expect when this douche enters these threads? Any small comment expressing such genuine criticism of the new sim is exploited to the end of the earth and used to show how X-Plane is better than this new sim.

Just ignore him. Attentions is what trolls wants... don't feed them. 

Put him on your ignore-list, if it bothers you. 🙂

[ludekbrno 302]

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

already available for several years with ortho4xp and osm data for xp11 (free)

Also now being hand tuned and resold by Orbx with phenominal results (e.g. perfect trees, buildings roads (not quite perfect yet) and attractions) for a not unreasonable fee.

sorry, not new or that exciting.

photogrammetry (taking out the human legwork) WAS the difference between what exists already.

Yes, but usable only in expensive addons and not on whole planet. This Is absolutely not comparable with MSFS's world in one package.

[mSparks 2,086]

17 minutes ago, ludekbrno said:

only in expensive addons and not on whole planet.

US$48.61 for all of California is not "expensive", and only necessary because it requires the "human time" being proposed for MSFS2020.

MSFT will have to recoup similar, either by having AI make a mess of it, or charging full price for a subscription (From 20 to 50 € per month. according to https://www.flightforum.ch/board/topic/102527-2019-und-die-heimische-flugsimulation/?do=findComment&comment=996503)

[TravelRunner404 596]

19 minutes ago, mSparks said:

US$48.61 for all of California is not "expensive", and only necessary because it requires the "human time" being proposed for MSFS2020.

By that logic the entire earth would be a not “expensive” $44,309.90 ($48.61/Sq km of California x Sq KM of land mass on earth).

It’s also taken 2.5 years to cover 2 countries and 2 states. So we should have global land mass coverage around 2075 but at least by then will have hard drives big enough to store it. 

[Shack95 2,658]

29 minutes ago, mSparks said:

charging full price for a subscription (From 20 to 50 € per month. according to https://www.flightforum.ch/board/topic/102527-2019-und-die-heimische-flugsimulation/?do=findComment&comment=996503)

According to flightforum.ch this info is from the Alpha forum. Further down in the same thread it says that it has been denied by another alleged MS-insider. Who knows...

[Claviateur 789]

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

photogrametry was really the only thing that made it stand out from the competition that any of the competition can't easily implement themselves (if they havent already).

So your statement has more significance than you seem to think.

 

9 hours ago, mSparks said:

Now it turns out only 1% of MSFS2020 scenery will be Photogrammetry.

Meanwhile XP11.50 beta is due very soon, which will be a generation newer graphics API than the DX11 Asobo are using in their Alpha (rather than the generation or three older openGL currently in 11.41).

Ok , again, I see strange arguments here!

Photogrammetry coverage depends on the data and the availability is limited and very well known to be limited. Not every city is scanned and we know that few cities will have Photogrammetry in MSFS since early previews as it's all driven by Bing data.

I wonder how many think the whole world is scanned and has Photogrammetry data... What Bing features in terms of Aerial and/or Photogrammetry (when available) will sooner or later make it to the engine I suppose. 

Saying Photogrammetry is the only thing that made the simulator stands out is yet again, one more bizarre and strange statement....

It's not a mystery but a fact, again, the WHOLE World Engine of Asobo is a newer gen engine. Just like any game engine that beats the competition or the previous year(s) engines. 

Asobo's engine beats the actual XP11 engine in so many different fields/aspects. Just to mention a few: Realistic atmospheric lighting, Complex and realistic weather rendering and generation (Complex layers of volumetric clouds + true to life precipitation and accumulation including snow, as seen lately), Complex terrain rendering and generation (AI generated and driven procedural implementation of infrastructure + vegetation, not relying on OSM but AI scanning) etc etc etc. And yes the icing of the cake is the few Photogrammetry available data implemented in the simulator...

And I am sorry, XP 11.50/Vulcan will not make the engine have anything to compete with Asobo's... 11.50 Vulcan will give the XP engine some rendering and especially performance and optimisation capability but will NOT add new features to the XP11 engines such as the ones I mentioned above in Asobo's engine...

Out of the "box", with or without Vulcan, XP11 World Engine is an older gen compared to MSFS. In terms of World Engine features (Weather, terrain rendering and procedural stuff etc etc), the default XP11 is unfortunately very basic compared to Asobo's...

By the way, I just finished a session of scenery work for XP11, Yes I am enjoying designing for this platform a lot, despite its limitation (terrain manipulation). For now, it is the best PC civilian simulator we have in our hands, but, we must say things as they are: What we see coming in MSFS as a default / out of the box simulator, in terms of World Engine features (no idea about how the simulator will be), is certainly wayyyyy more advanced and true to life than XP11's engine, with or without Vulcan.
 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Claviateur

[mSparks 2,086]

7 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Photogrammetry coverage depends on the data and the availability is limited

mixing so much.

but no, hi resolution photogrammetry is absolutely available for the whole world, satelites have been churning out that data at 1cm accuracy into bing for a decade now.

it is a surprise they arent actually using much of that.

11 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Complex layers of volumetric clouds

ace combat 7 ps4 vr for a year.

you bought it?

12 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

true to life precipitation

visibility and weather in xp11 has matched every one of my real life flights, so no idea what you are complaining about.

13 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

accumulation including snow

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/46982-seasons-winter-xp11/

so again, no idea what you are complaining about.

15 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

procedural implementation of infrastructure + vegetation, not relying on OSM but AI scanning

so you think AI scanning has surpassed humans?

think that remains to be seen.

16 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

etc etc etc

such as, nothing so far.

16 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

And yes the icing of the cake is the few Photogrammetry available data implemented in the simulator...

exactly "just this"

1% of the scenery apparently, so.....

[azulkb 302]

25 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

According to flightforum.ch this info is from the Alpha forum. Further down in the same thread it says that it has been denied by another alleged MS-insider. Who knows...

Alpha insiders are in a place for test à product and report bug not to Know price. Microsoft and Asobo have no interest to share price information to insiders

[Shack95 2,658]

2 minutes ago, azulkb said:

Alpha insiders are in a place for test à product and report bug not to Know price. Microsoft and Asobo have no interest to share price information to insiders

Yes, I admit it it sounds a bit fishy. I just wanted to see where the rumour comes from (didn‘t intend to spread it). And that‘s what I found out. No idea how credible it is. We‘ll see.

[highflyer2020 607]

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

visibility and weather in xp11 has matched every one of my real life flights, so no idea what you are complaining about.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/46982-seasons-winter-xp11/

 

[Screenshot from the plugin]

 

With respect to the developer that took time out of their life to build this snow plugin for X-Plane you can't seriously be comparing THAT to what we just saw from Asobo? 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by highflyer2020

[mSparks 2,086]

27 minutes ago, highflyer2020 said:

 

[Screenshot from the plugin]

 

With respect to the developer that took time of their life to build this snow plugin for X-Plane you can't seriously be comparing THAT to what we just saw from Asobo? 

oops. wrong one - there is of course choices 

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/56152-sam-extension-seasons-library/

 

[RalphBartsch 2]

Photogrammetry is not obtained by satellites but by airplanes, because all objects have to be photographed by an angle from different sides - which can not be done by satellite. Weather and light in XP 11 looks better than in FSX, of course (especially because of the much more realistic haze) but are far from reality and much worse than what we see in the FS 2020 preview videos.

The snow in the screen shots looks terribly cartoonish. Linking to the X-Plane forum only showed that x-plane will not be able to compete against FS 2020.

But why again are you discussing X-Plane?

Edited January 4, 2020 by RalphBartsch