1 minute ago, dtrjones said:

But... If they had to replace the PG trees with sim trees so the snow shader could produce snow, then trees sizes are relevant? Seems fine what they have done and if we stomp our feet and shout enough they can scale back the trees sizes, so all should be fine I think 🤞

I think it's a proof of concept. nothing more and as they read us, they will correct, we don't know how, don't forget, no comment from them on this publication.

But they are not blind and they are aware of the work that remains to be done on the simulator, simply they are transparent and deliver us I find beautiful gifts. I was about to wait until the 9th to see the next media, and finally this video arrived.

I'm one of those who see the glass half full and not the glass half empty (no idea if this french expression will echo my english speaking friends).

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

triangle render performance is a simple fact.

high quality trees = lots and lots of triangles

lots of triangles = poor performance.

This clearly isnt an infinite detail engine.

Weren't you just complaining about a lack of near-field detail? What are you arguing for or against? More triangles equals poor performance? Cosmic analysis there, guy.

I am really happy to see technology to include snow in the platform and think it looks great. 

I do, however, absolutely want MS/Asobo to have properly scaled trees in the sim.

This is really important because if you are flying low to the ground (like when you land) above trees that are too big, your eyes tell your mind that you are closer to the ground than you actually are. 

I trust that Asobo will have the correct scale when it comes to trees or any other element in the sim. 

1 minute ago, Noodle said:

Weren't you just complaining about a lack of near-field detail? What are you arguing for or against? More triangles equals poor performance? Cosmic analysis there, guy.

you expect what level of analysis from someone who posts a "modern" video or supposedly nothing is missing, of courchevel, while the meshes are rotten, the colors are vomited, and the trees are untouched by any snow.

Well,

after this last video, I had to change my SIG...

🙂

 

Edited January 3, 20206 yr by jcomm

The tall trees in Central Park, could they have been chosen that way only to quickly show us the 'effect' and for this they placed taller trees covering/hiding the existing photogrammetry trees underneath?

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

triangle render performance is a simple fact.

high quality trees = lots and lots of triangles

lots of triangles = poor performance.

This clearly isnt an infinite detail engine.

You know so little about computer graphics I physically cringe when reading your sad, misinformed ramblings. I'd suggest you pick up "Intro to OpenGL"-type tutorial and stop embarassing yourself.

Modern GPUs can easily handle millions of those "triangles". It is not their count which limits performance. To name a few other bottlenecks in render pipeline:

* number of draw calls (bane of 12-yo kids who want to develop a Minecraft clone... turns out, simply rendering 1000 separate cubes doesn't work that great)

* number and switching of render targets,

* number of shaders, where do they sit in the pipeline and how complex they are.

Rendering pipelines of modern games are ridiculously complex. However, because programmers - unlike the incompetent likes of you - are quite skilled, they developed methods to optimize the hell out of this process.

For instance, ever heard of occlusion culling? (of course you haven't, because you know as much about computer graphics as you know about computational flight dynamics and modelling...) It's one of techniques used to reduce the number of those triangles (breathe, they can't hurt you now) that actually have to be sent to the GPU in a VBO or something.

Also, I'd wager that after smoothing by Azure most buildings have relatively simple meshes. Hence it's not like rendering each building would be so demanding. The shape of buildings also makes shadows easier to compute and render. See? Not so bad after all, with all those triangles. 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

Surely you can understand that "much better" will not be for several years yet.

And at this point most of what they are showing will only decrease in quality as they optimise for less capable machines.

Yeah, unfortunately no game has ever had implemented something like a slider - Graphics to "low", "medium", "ultra". And do you not realize that people are playing Tech Alpha 1 right now and the performance is considered to be reaaaaly, suprisingly... good? Considering they haven't really started optimization yet, I'd say that we aren't looking at any significant downgrades. But sure, ignore every bit of info people throw at you. Show us where Microsoft touched you.

Edited January 3, 20206 yr by alkan

57 minutes ago, azulkb said:

I think it's a proof of concept. nothing more and as they read us, they will correct, we don't know how, don't forget, no comment from them on this publication.

But they are not blind and they are aware of the work that remains to be done on the simulator, simply they are transparent and deliver us I find beautiful gifts. I was about to wait until the 9th to see the next media, and finally this video arrived.

I'm one of those who see the glass half full and not the glass half empty (no idea if this french expression will echo my english speaking friends).

Glass half full is an expression I use as well!

Asobo have met so many challenges already, stuff the community has been asking from Microsoft for decades now, proper dynamic flight model, slopped runways, cloud shadows, 3D clouds, recognizable scenery, touch screens, checklists. You name it they have met the challenge head on, so we should definitely have our glasses half full and if I may raised to toast Asobo and Microsoft on a wonderful year and a prosperous 2020! 

1 hour ago, dtrjones said:

Glass half full is an expression I use as well!

Asobo have met so many challenges already, stuff the community has been asking from Microsoft for decades now, proper dynamic flight model, slopped runways, cloud shadows, 3D clouds, recognizable scenery, touch screens, checklists. You name it they have met the challenge head on, so we should definitely have our glasses half full and if I may raised to toast Asobo and Microsoft on a wonderful year and a prosperous 2020! 

Bringing my glass up too  🥂 ! What I like in MS/Asobo's  approach is that they are not afraid to show us the empty half and that they welcome us to tell them we'd prefer a full glass 😉. Very astute marketing. 

42 minutes ago, alkan said:

You know so little about computer graphics I physically cringe when reading your sad, misinformed ramblings. I'd suggest you pick up "Intro to OpenGL"-type tutorial and stop embarassing yourself.

Modern GPUs can easily handle millions of those "triangles"....

 

I'm surprised he still gets a response.

1 hour ago, alkan said:

millions of those "triangles".

a single mature oak has half a million leaves.

so millions of triangles isnt as useful as you make out.

of a video, which proves that the community has been heard, about the work of the seasons, where at least the winters, with beautiful frozen lakes, a winter atmosphere, where everything seems frozen by the ice, or the winters we feel it ... this video I must have watched 20 times.

and here we are discussing the size of the trees in central park. Trees voluntarily replaced by the previous video for a reason unknown to us. Certainly to show the progressive rise of the snow because they couldn't do it at this stage of development on photogrammetic trees. it's a work in progress, they still have many months to perfect the visual work, but honestly I hope they won't devote all their resources to a tree problem.

But as this is not enough to feed the critics, mSparks shown us a beautiful video of courchevel from x-plane, with trees without snow, mountains with 3 triangles, and white snow and texture or rather repetitive noise mixed with dirty white. which is the must right now. (according to him)

But as it was counter productive, here we are now going to count the triangles of the oaks.

So I try to make the link between the number of leaves in an oak and the work on the seasons. But I can't do it.

the next one's going to tell us that there are anthills in the summer, and that the ants are poorly modeled and not numerous enough.

Edited January 3, 20206 yr by azulkb

2 minutes ago, azulkb said:

for a reason unknown to us.

not unknown. previously they were 12 triangle cubes.

so it is an improvement over the first videos.

but still a long way from something like the free hd tree pack you can already download, that already push high end graphic cards to their limits.

 

35 minutes ago, azulkb said:

of a video, which proves that the community has been heard, about the work of the seasons, where at least the winters, with beautiful frozen lakes, a winter atmosphere, where everything seems frozen by the ice, or the winters we feel it ... this video I must have watched 20 times.

and here we are discussing the size of the trees in central park. Trees voluntarily replaced by the previous video for a reason unknown to us. Certainly to show the progressive rise of the snow because they couldn't do it at this stage of development on photogrammetic trees. it's a work in progress, they still have many months to perfect the visual work, but honestly I hope they won't devote all their resources to a tree problem.

But as this is not enough to feed the critics, mSparks shown us a beautiful video of courchevel from x-plane, with trees without snow, mountains with 3 triangles, and white snow and texture or rather repetitive noise mixed with dirty white. which is the must right now. (according to him)

But as it was counter productive, here we are now going to count the triangles of the oaks.

So I try to make the link between the number of leaves in an oak and the work on the seasons. But I can't do it.

the next one's going to tell us that there are anthills in the summer, and that the ants are poorly modeled and not numerous enough.

Well, I expect anthills all right. And the right size too.  They were a reported nuisance in the first TransAfrica flight in 1920 in the selected landing sites. And that will be one of my first flights after the release.

Anyway, the whole spirit of Asobo pre-release campaign is to tease us to death ... and to provoke our reactions. No need to be tense. Relax ! 

I understand and wrote that trees were not the main purpose of the teaser. But it is good to remind Asobo that, yes, trees are important for many of us. The right kind, the right size. Like anthills.

PS now don’t start me on oak leaves. I am just back from sweeping a 250 l bag of dead oak leaves in my garden.

making mountains out of anthills.