1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

I think Jim French has a share of the blame here, before leaving in 2013 he'd signed Flybe up for £850m of E-jets that were to prove a significant liability - the deal was done on the basis they'd cost no more than a Q400 to operate but then the fuel price went up (who'd have thought that, fuel prices going up!) and that's before you even consider the purchase costs.

I thought the decision to buy the E-Jets came after him, thanks for clarifying. He clearly carries a significant portion of the blame then. The rush to jets was the first of a string of bad decisions that led us to last night's winding-up.
 

1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

Given the size of Flybe's network, unless someone buys a lot of their assets (read: Q400s) and attempts to restart their operations, the UK's going to lose a LOT of routes. I can't see any of the airlines you named having the necessary airframes, nor inclination given the current uncertainty in the market to cover even 20% of flybe's network. It's a very sad day indeed.

51 minutes ago, ailchim said:

Flybe is vital in linking businesses in Scotland to the South and the South West to Manchester and so on.  Not only are the railways overcrowded and unreliable, they are often more expensive than flying.  This is a big blow for everyone outside London and the Home Counties.

- BA have already announced that they'll be running LHR - NQY from this summer.
- BA CityFlyer could jump-in for the E170s and expand their ever-increasing network.
- IOM is rather difficult to reach by surface transport. Flights will re-start.
- N.I. is also difficult to get reach by surface transport for the business traveller. Plus BFS is inconvenient to get to, so some of BHD's latent demand will be met, although the number of flights will probably be halved at best.
- Scottish routes will be picked-up since the market won't shift to the trains for the reasons you've mentioned.

Not to mention that a lot of the regional flying was supported as PSO routes. I don't see them remaining unfulfilled for long. Aurigny, Blue Islands, Stobart, just to name a few others will be very interested.
There could be a firesale on the owned airframes as creditors are desperate to get any money that was owed, plus a glut of Dash 8s won't be beneficial to the lessors either.
These would be a great, cheap way to pick-up the pieces by the smaller airlines.

The bucket and spade trip demand will probably be met by easyJet, Jet2, Tui, Ryanair from other larger regional airports. Although, I'd be worried if I was one of the EXT or SOU owners.

It's all uncertain and distressing for BEE staff at the moment, but I don't share the gloomy outlook that is being portrayed here.
 

Edited March 5, 20206 yr by F737NG

31 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Well it looks like I missed a rescue flight this morning at 10.

Just come back from Guernsey airport. Looks like there MIGHT be another rescue flight in the morning.

I don’t know if you have any spare budget having obviously  already bought your ticket or how quick you need to get back. They’ll obviously sort something out quick as the islanders need an air bridge, however if you’re desperate to get back in your position I’d be thinking about getting across to Jersey, there are  a lot more options from there.

1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

parc aviation will be moving them I guess.  but not sure who would want to buy Flybees fleet or if they go back to the leasers ?

It could be an opportunity for loganair to expand south again  like they did in 90’s

15 minutes ago, jon b said:

I don’t know if you have any spare budget having obviously  already bought your ticket or how quick you need to get back. They’ll obviously sort something out quick as the islanders need an air bridge, however if you’re desperate to get back in your position I’d be thinking about getting across to Jersey, there are  a lot more options from there.

 

It's the same situation there. In fact some of the flybe flights went from Guersey to Jersey then on to Birmingham. Dont think there are any other flights from Jersey to Birmingham.

If I cant jump on a Blue Islands rescue flight  in the morning I will have to do something like Guernsey to London and then get a train home. Or might be easier to do Guernsey Sourhampton as the railway station is adjacent to the airport.

1 hour ago, F737NG said:

I thought the decision to buy the E-Jets came after him, thanks for clarifying. He clearly carries a significant portion of the blame then. The rush to jets was the first of a string of bad decisions that led us to last night's winding-up.
 

- BA have already announced that they'll be running LHR - NQY from this summer.
- BA CityFlyer could jump-in for the E170s and expand their ever-increasing network.
- IOM is rather difficult to reach by surface transport. Flights will re-start.
- N.I. is also difficult to get reach by surface transport for the business traveller. Plus BFS is inconvenient to get to, so some of BHD's latent demand will be met, although the number of flights will probably be halved at best.
- Scottish routes will be picked-up since the market won't shift to the trains for the reasons you've mentioned.

Not to mention that a lot of the regional flying was supported as PSO routes. I don't see them remaining unfulfilled for long. Aurigny, Blue Islands, Stobart, just to name a few others will be very interested.
There could be a firesale on the owned airframes as creditors are desperate to get any money that was owed, plus a glut of Dash 8s won't be beneficial to the lessors either.
These would be a great, cheap way to pick-up the pieces by the smaller airlines.

The bucket and spade trip demand will probably be met by easyJet, Jet2, Tui, Ryanair from other larger regional airports. Although, I'd be worried if I was one of the EXT or SOU owners.

It's all uncertain and distressing for BEE staff at the moment, but I don't share the gloomy outlook that is being portrayed here.
 

I'll agree with you on all that apart from the last bit. The vast majority of the pilots and cabin crew will have options.  They can go to easy / Ryanair / Ba mixed fleet etc etc. 

Will their rosters be as nice as a flybee roster, absolutely not, but they have a choice and options. They might not like an easyjet 10-3 roster or FRV.  They might not like the rubbish money of mixed fleet BA, they might not like the grueling Ryanair rosters, but its a job. 

The office staff however are not so lucky. They will be in big trouble,  it's a long way from Exeter to Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton or Dublin to do a non existant office job (thats only ever internally advertised) at Ba, vs, ezy or Ryanair

The crew will have a lot more options. 

I know lll get roasted for this but I don't have not much sympathy for cabin crew and I have absolutely none for pilots.  Sorry just my opinion. 

The office staff in Exeter have just had their careers in aviation finished  and no will shed a tear for them, only the poor poor crew who will find other albeit less attractive jobs while the office staff stack shelves.

 

Edited March 5, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

1 hour ago, jon b said:

It could be an opportunity for loganair to expand south again  like they did in 90’s

Maybe but easy, Jet2 and ryanair will hoover up alot of their slots

2 hours ago, F737NG said:

I thought the decision to buy the E-Jets came after him, thanks for clarifying. He clearly carries a significant portion of the blame then. The rush to jets was the first of a string of bad decisions that led us to last night's winding-up.
 

- BA have already announced that they'll be running LHR - NQY from this summer.
- BA CityFlyer could jump-in for the E170s and expand their ever-increasing network.
- IOM is rather difficult to reach by surface transport. Flights will re-start.
- N.I. is also difficult to get reach by surface transport for the business traveller. Plus BFS is inconvenient to get to, so some of BHD's latent demand will be met, although the number of flights will probably be halved at best.
- Scottish routes will be picked-up since the market won't shift to the trains for the reasons you've mentioned.

Not to mention that a lot of the regional flying was supported as PSO routes. I don't see them remaining unfulfilled for long. Aurigny, Blue Islands, Stobart, just to name a few others will be very interested.
There could be a firesale on the owned airframes as creditors are desperate to get any money that was owed, plus a glut of Dash 8s won't be beneficial to the lessors either.
These would be a great, cheap way to pick-up the pieces by the smaller airlines.

The bucket and spade trip demand will probably be met by easyJet, Jet2, Tui, Ryanair from other larger regional airports. Although, I'd be worried if I was one of the EXT or SOU owners.

It's all uncertain and distressing for BEE staff at the moment, but I don't share the gloomy outlook that is being portrayed here.
 

In my opinion anything falling into BA's hands would be a bad thing.  They have a record going back decades of buying up smaller UK airlines, cherry-picking the best bits and then dumping or shutting the rest down. Remember BMI? 

34 minutes ago, ailchim said:

Remember BMI? 

The same bmi that Lufthansa was compelled to purchase before running it down and running away with half of their LHR slots?
The BA that recruited 1,500 bmi staff?
Plenty to bash BA for, but bmi isn't one of them.

Anyway, in more positive news, Loganair has already announced that they will take up the running of 16 former flybe routes:
https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/latest-news/2020/loganair-steps-in-to-safeguard-uk-air-routes-after-flybe-collapse
 

The CEO of Loganair  has to be one of the best guys in the British aviation industry, I hope they do well , I’d imagine they’d pick up some BE staff too.

Edited March 5, 20206 yr by jon b

39 minutes ago, F737NG said:

The same bmi that Lufthansa was compelled to purchase before running it down and running away with half of their LHR slots?
The BA that recruited 1,500 bmi staff?
Plenty to bash BA for, but bmi isn't one of them.

 

Agreed.  BA was the best thing to ever happen to the staff at BMI.  People from BMI jumped BA seniority lists left, right and centre.  Sure the ex midland guys get grief on the line and in the sims at opc time from the old ba cronies and career fo's , but to go from a command at an outfit like BMI to the national carrier and not loose rank/seniority its not to be grumbled at.   But the whole BA / BMI pilots dispute of working together shows how retarded old school pilots can be. 

Edited March 5, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

41 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Anyway, in more positive news, Loganair has already announced that they will take up the running of 16 former flybe routes:
https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/latest-news/2020/loganair-steps-in-to-safeguard-uk-air-routes-after-flybe-collapse
 

There you go some pilots and crew saved.   

Do you think any of the ops/occ guys will be going up to Glasgow? Nope as mentioned, left out to dry

Just wondering if the hard core environmentalists have a little cynical smile on their faces now. After all, they ask everyone to stop flying. 

Loganair (another airline which I work on) announced today that it will be adding another 37 flights per week from Manchester to destinations in Scotland. This is to fill the gap left by FlyBe since one of the most lucrative (i.e. pretty much always full to capacity) flights is to Aberdeen. That's because Aberdeen is the town which supports the gas and oil rigs and is why the airport there is one of the busiest heliports in Europe.

Meanwhile here's some more information concerning the collapse of FlyBe. Last night there were flights which were reported as 'diverting for fuel' into Manchester, which didn't make a lot of sense considering the routes they were flying. Later that evening the true picture revealed what was really occurring with those flights. I think that story was probably to placate the passengers on board those flights. A few flights out of Manchester got as far as the runway before being called back to the stands, although I think two of them were allowed to depart largely because Manchester didn't want half the FlyBe fleet on its remote stands for weeks, which is what happened with Thomas Cook (some are still there), and Monarch before them.

Tonight there are three Dash 8s parked up in the Cul-De-Sac (stands 11-44) and there is an Embraer 175 on stand 65 along with a few other Dash 8s out to around stand 68. Several of these aircraft have vehicles or equipment parked behind them to prevent them from pushing out (the same thing occurred with the Thomas Cook fleet). Meanwhile, we've been told that most of us are under risk of redundancy although it's early days on that score so we don't know any more than that. I didn't work on many FlyBe flights, I'm mostly working on KLM, Air France, Icelanair, Vueling, Aer Lingus, British Airways and Loganair, so whether my job is safer than the guys who did mainly all the FlyBe stuff remains to be seen.

I have an idea why what occurred with FlyBe has gone on, but I'm not going to say it here because it would probably cause trouble even though I'm pretty sure it is the truth. None of the mass media news stories have latched onto that angle (yet), but if you want to take a guess what that is, look carefully at the ongoing investigation into what occurred with some finances when Thomas Cook folded, and then consider who owns FlyBe and the similar circumstances surrounding a bail out request from the Govt and what the owners (or rather one of them) had planned for FlyBe and you can probably work out what I'm driving at.

Anyway. Here's a couple of pics of the Cul-De-Sac I took on the way out from work this evening on my phone. On pic number 2, you can see two Dash 8s and you can just make out that a snowplough tractor is parked behind it to prevent it from pushing out:

 

Ceos have been doing stuff like they done for years its called the four year cycle. But as the media is more concerned about the kardashians the general public neither know about how corrupt the city is, nor do they understand it. What has happened to the airline industry with subsidised routes has been going on for 20 years and in the railway industry in the UK since the 70s when it was privatised.  

Edited March 6, 20206 yr by fluffyflops

On 3/5/2020 at 7:10 AM, Chock said:

A bad point with all that sophistication however, is that if the APU breaks on an A320, you have to manually pump the hydraulic doors open using a little handle which is stowed in a panel on the starboard underside of the fuselage. It takes a lot of cranks to open the door and you need two people to do it as well, since someone has to hold the door control lever in the open position whilst the other poor person is pumping away like mad.

You don’t necessarily need an operating apu to operate the cargo doors on an airbus. You just need electrical power for the yellow electric hydraulic pump. So if the apu is inop or not running, you just need to have ground power available for the aircraft. I don’t believe the aircraft even has to be powered up as it looks like the pump is also connected directly to ext power by the maintenance bus switch. So as long as there is gpu connected, and someone has latched the maint switch, the cargo doors will operate powered even on a cold and dark plane. At least that is how our airbuses are configured. Maybe this will save you some some pumping away like mad in the future. Maybe not.

Edited March 7, 20206 yr by KevinAu