13 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

FS devs really need to understand that a lot of purchases are driven by a feeling of community spirit - this is why i will support the devs who kindly gave away free stuff during the recent “stay at home” sales.

This community spirit is just as important, perhaps even more so, than the product.

What used to torque me at PMDG was when some poor guy who was obviously a new comer to the hobby would ask a rather novice qustion and would be answered with a snarky read the ******* manuals along with an appraisal of his reasoning powers. If he responded as most people would to such arrogant rudeness there would be no shortage of munchkins come out from under the bushes and start slinging you know what at the poor guy. I think the aforementioned dev was mainly responsible for setting this tone. I think it has gotten better since they got their own site though there are still a couple of Kyle wannabes.

"What wine do you recommend, that goes good with Crow?  Just wondering..." 😉

Edited May 3, 20206 yr by Sesquashtoo

Any fine Whine will do.

20 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

PMDG has managed to convince simmers that there offerings are the "best" - but is this actually true? Is there objective data on this? I'm not convinced. Most of us are not Boeing pilots, so we have to take their word for this. 

 

I suspect there is a bit of 'the emperor's new clothes' going on where some attitudes toward PMDG are concerned. There can be little doubt that the original PMDG 737 NG which was made for FS2004 was certainly one of the best, if not the best, stabs at making a realistic airliner within the confines of what the base simulator was able to support at the time. One only has to recall all the 'I can't get it started' posts on various forums at the time it was out, most of which were as a result of people not being used to a simulation of a realistic bleed air system. Flight simmers had not really been used to this level of systems realism and the fact that the PMDG FS2004 was one of the first sim add-ons to do this, has gone a long way toward cementing the opinion in many people's heads that PMDG is the zenith of flight sim developments. But despite this fiction, what that situation actually has served to do in reality, is create a situation whereby every new high-end flight sim add-on aeroplane is met with a level of expectation which is a spur to all developers.

But even whilst it is true that this push which, at the time PMDG was undeniably a part of, certainly raised the bar quite a bit for flight sim add-on aeroplane development, this was not the only place where that was occurring. Recall for example the extremely realistic Supranov Designs Yakovlev Yak-40 for FS2004, which remains one of the most complex simulations of the electrical systems on board an airliner (an unusual one at that) and for a very long time was really only surpassed in that respect by the more recent Majestic Dash 8 Q400 and the FSL A320's replications of complex electrics.

This sort of thing is inclined to make even people who are not that familiar with aeroplane systems tend to fall into step with those who praise such things from a position of knowing about them. But the 737 NG is certainly a more well-known FS add-on and it is this which has in large part served to continue the opinion, correct or otherwise among many people, that PMDG is the best at what it does regardless of the fact that it has been incumbent on pretty much every developer out there to meet those kind of expectations these days. This is a situation whereby much of the time, PMDG's reputation among sycophants, trades off a situation based on basking in former glories. Now in fairness, that's not really PMDG's fault, after all, its reputation was indeed hard won back with its FS2004 NG, but is rather the fault of the people who continue to blow sunshine up PMDG's @rse at every turn, although on occasion the propensity to heap reverence upon the company has not helped it in terms of its modesty; a well known example of which is the attitude which has frequently been on display in its support forms.

It's worth bearing in mind too, that driving force behind PMDG in terms of pushing for realism and pushing what could be done to replicate it when they made their FS2004 737 NG, was chiefly as a result of Lefteris Kalamaras having been the main man at PMDG and the dynamo behind creating that NG. Of course Lefteris has long since departed from PMDG, going on to oversee the development of the Concorde and the A320 at FSL; products which again raised the bar significantly to a point where that is still pretty much the gold standard of pushing the flight sim add-on aeroplane's envelope.

None of this means that PMDG's products are not good, nor that they don't innovate, I for example was hugely impressed by what PMDG managed to achieve in terms of managing VAS usage with their FSX 747-400, but the idea that PMDG is the unassailable master of all it lays hands upon, which many people foster in spite of evidence to the contrary, is as I say, often more a case of the emperor's new clothes than being born out of a true reflection of the output of a good many flight sim add-on developers.

This is probably among the reasons why people still insist that the PMDG 737 NG is vastly superior to the iFly 737 NG, when it really isn't. Don't get me wrong, there have still been innovations from PMDG, not least with their 737, for example the inclusion of a collimated HGS, although again, it's worth remembering that at the time that innovation appeared on their NG, it also appeared in the VRS F/A-18 Hornet as well, and back with the respective NGs from PMDG and iFly, there are still things which the iFly 737's avionics simulate which are not the case for the PMDG offering. Not forgetting that it taxies onto your hard drive for a considerably lower price too, which itself is an innovation; after all, these things take a long time to develop and it's only fair that the work should receive appropriate remuneration.

Now excuse me whilst I put my flak hat on. I expect some PMDG fans will be along to take a shot at me for having dared to indulge in such heresy as to not unquestioningly praise everything they do. 🤣

 

Edited May 3, 20206 yr by Chock

Wow, Alan, this is quite the hatchet job.  What you've done here isn't heresy, it comes across more like mean, spiteful slander. 

The majority of PMDG's loyal customers are not gullible sycophants.  Many of us do in all honesty believe PMDG really is every bit that good, and that is why we keep going back for more.

I value PMDG add-ons because they're consistently high fidelity, solid and reliable.  Their add-ons cover all the bases well--flight dynamics, systems, avionics, graphics, sound, interoperability, features, performance and support.  While some of their competition is certainly good, it's rare to find a developer that so routinely hits on all cylinders with their add-ons like PMDG does, and most of the ones that get close are one-show ponies.  There are a few others that I place up on the top shelf with them, but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that PMDG has been rightfully perched at the top of the pyramid through four different major iterations of the simulator. 

I think it's downright ridiculous to suggest they have kept their reputation or their growing and loyal following simply by "basking in former glories" ever since they produced a groundbreaking FS9 addon.  Nor do they owe most of their success to one guy that's been gone for a decade or more...that's an insult to the talented team of people that have contributed to the success of the company and its products. 

I've been simming since the early 90s and have been a voracious consumer of add-on software all that time.  I've seen 'em all.  It is not pumping sunshine to say that PMDG have very few peers in our little niche.  While they are not alone, they have earned--and continue to earn--their place in our virtual hangars.

 

13 hours ago, w6kd said:

Wow, Alan, this is quite the hatchet job.  What you've done here isn't heresy, it comes across more like mean, spiteful slander. 

The majority of PMDG's loyal customers are not gullible sycophants.  Many of us do in all honesty believe PMDG really is every bit that good, and that is why we keep going back for more.

 

 

Where at any point in my post did I say I was referring to the majority of PMDG customers, or that they were gullible? If you think that is what I wrote in my post, then it is quite clear that you neither read, nor comprehended my post at all but instead immediately went into indignant mode. I suggest you read it again.

Oh, and slander is spoken, I think you mean libel, not that it was that either.

Edited May 4, 20206 yr by Chock

I have their FS9/FSX airliners but for P3D v4 PMDG price itself out of my league. I simply can't afford to buy their amazing airliners. If they were more affordable, I would own them all because based on their reputation, they are all that good.