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MarkW

Decreasing FPS

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This is happening to me as well, initially I thought it was HT in my 8700K. I disabled it and ran the sim at 5GHz HT Off. 

Funny enough, my sim stays at 45-60fps, then momentarily drops to 7-12fps every few minutes/seconds (I don't count), as if it's trying to load something...but this thing happens in cruise, over the pacific. Using also the PMDG B748.


Romano Lara
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I have seen NCP and ADM Crymson Software (equivalent of NCP for aMD) causing havoc with P3D textures, dynamic lighting and the effects particle system.. all because these external tools will instruct the GPU to drop textures or perform commands that would distort the results of the simulator.

But I see you guys don't want to listen.. so keep at it..

Cyou soon.

S.

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1 minute ago, simbol said:

I have seen NCP and ADM Crymson Software (equivalent of NCP for aMD) causing havoc with P3D textures, dynamic lighting and the effects particle system.. all because these external tools will instruct the GPU to drop textures or perform commands that would distort the results of the simulator.

But I see you guys don't want to listen.. so keep at it..

Cyou soon.

S.

I hear you Simbol and does not doubt but maybe those who experience differently "believe" that P3D´s internal limiter favorizes these things you mention instead of FPS ? (poor performance vs NCP ?)

Michael Moe

 


Michael Moe

 

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56 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

I hear you Simbol and does not doubt but maybe those who experience differently "believe" that P3D´s internal limiter favorizes these things you mention instead of FPS ? (poor performance vs NCP ?)

Michael Moe

 

That is the whole point, if your system is not capable of sustaining FPS via the internal P3D limiter.. it means your P3D settings are not adequate for your hardware... it means you need to adjust them.. and of course you keep ignoring this fact and you continue to use NCP to force higher FPS it will come with a "COST".. what will be the cost? who knows as this would be depending of circumstances.

There is no magic bullet here to get more FPS out of P3D via 3rd party tools, that is a fantasy.. external tools like NCP, Crimson software, etc. will issue commands to the GPU to lock frames and they cannot use any information inside P3D to push your GPU, so this can trigger unusual behaviours inside P3D as:

  1. Black textures out of nowhere:

    Textures were removed from the GPU before P3D was ready for it.., now P3D has to re-render them.
     
  2. Texture Morphing:

    Again textures were removed from your field of view, before P3D was ready for it in accordance with your settings, now P3D has to re-render these
     
  3. Effect particles skipped from being rendered for no reason. This presents under P3D as squares landing, navigation lights or square smoke particles in your environment and even weird colours in clouds, etc.:

    Mathematical instructions for physics, textures rendering, morphing, color blending, etc. were dropped by the GPU without informing P3D, so you end up with a simulator thinking the effect was rendered perfectly but the GPU has done the opposite.
     
  4. Rendering anomalies:

    As above..
     
  5. VRAM consumption anomalies:

    P3D is trying to keep your VRAM consumption at bay, VRAM is the most expensive resource for DX12. If any 3rd party tool starts tempering with the usage of VRAM there is a high chance P3D equations would be in-effective. Be aware FPS, anti-aliasing techniques, textures removal / rendering, etc. will have an effect on VRAM consumption specially at the higher end of screen resolutions like 4K  / 8K.
     
  6. Others as stutters, FPS anomalies, etc:

    This is the result of opposite commands sent to the GPU, for example so you have P3D saying to the GPU please do this.. while a 3rd party tool is instructing it to do the opposite. Is like having 2 forces fighting with each other, one saying do 60FPS! the other saying but I need a break now for 0.0002 milliseconds to cache the next airport, load the panel gauge you just fired and show the new clouds coming up.... instructs the GPU to do things that would slowdown very shortly to 45FPS instead of 60. and yet again the other tool will response with.. 45? noo.. lets keep pushing for 60FPS!!!.. the cycle repeats.. the desired instructions by P3D cannot be completed and you end up with weird stuff going on...

P3D V4 was far more forgiving with these things because under DX11 if you run out of VRAM normal RAM could be used -this would happen with a performance penalty but things would continue to run-. However DX12 is a new beast (P3D V5) and normal RAM cannot be used, if VRAM is starved, it is the end of the rendering process. So all these little things will have a much BIGGER impact leading to lots of CTD, DXGI driver hung, etc. all self inflicted by corrupted or mis-configured 3rd party tools trying to manage P3D performance.

Only P3D V5 can manage its own performance folks.. nothing else..

S.

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I've said this a number of times:

With any game or flight sim, when there are settings available in the program, those should be used rather than what might appear to be an equivalent feature in the GPU settings or another program. That is because when a setting is used in the game, that feature may incorporate other coding to go along with that setting. If what might appear to be an equivalent feature in the GPU settings or another program is used, the game does not know this and does not invoke any corresponding code if it is set up that way. Prepar3D v5 incorporates even more settings than we have seen before, use them.

The locked fps feature in the Display Settings of FSX and P3D invoke a look ahead buffer. Each frame time is pre-determined and the locations of scenery and objects in the simulation are calculated for that time. If the fps drops then those items are out of place and can cause timing problems in the simulation. In the rendering sequence, a look ahead frame must be produced first, so there is also a tiny lag before control inputs are calculated for. If there is any wobble in the frame rate the look ahead is consumed and the sequence starts again. This looks like worse performance, but it is correct. What it really shows us is that, as Simbol clearly explained, the settings are pushed too high.

When using complex aircraft these have complications in their gauges and dlls. These programs draw even more time from the game loop and that gives less time to assemble each frame, so settings must be reduced further for those.

Start with a stock simulator and factory defaults as have been explained many times so that can be checked to be working correctly first. Only then install addons, one by one, and only increase display settings gradually from there.

Use the Unlimited VSync=OFF setup to observe the possible fps. See first that the setup can maintain fps required. That is the way to test and that must be observed before going to locked fps or limited fps. From there other tools can be tested with care.

 

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Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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The KISS principle:

Keep It Simple, Stupid

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System: i9 9900k@4.9 - 32 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti --- Sim/Addons: P3D v5 with tons of Addons and 3rd Party Airports
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Using the internal limiter with heavy payware aircraft + airports just isn't viable for so many users, even when you turn down the settings so low that you're wondering if you're using a flight sim released in 2020. If I have to choose between ~30 FPS and some blurry textures here and there or 17 FPS using the limiter, I'll take the 30 FPS. Also, with regard to VRAM management... the limiter does nothing to help with this. You'll still crash and it doesn't give you an opportunity to lower settings, so the end result is really no different between internal/external limiters.

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-Alex 

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I would just like to reiterate that the "Internal Limiter" is not a limiter because it creates frames at a certain frequency. Since those frames only appear at that frequency, they need not be Limited. An external limiter is just that, a limit, or cap on fps.


Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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In the FWIW department, followed Raul's advice and disabled all external limiters and settings. Locked my FPS at 24 - took a couple of test flights - fps stayed at 22-24 with no drops. Flights were in Orbx So Cal which hits the system pretty hard so I am pleased. Probably could go higher but since it's smooth at 24 with no anomalies I see no point.

 

Vic


 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

In the FWIW department, followed Raul's advice and disabled all external limiters and settings. Locked my FPS at 24 - took a couple of test flights - fps stayed at 22-24 with no drops. Flights were in Orbx So Cal which hits the system pretty hard so I am pleased. Probably could go higher but since it's smooth at 24 with no anomalies I see no point.

 

Vic

What did you fly Vic and what airports did you fly into? That is the question.

 

Edited by Dirk98

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I'd be pretty annoyed if I spent $1,249 on a video card and got 24 FPS. But whatever.


-Alex 

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4 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I'd be pretty annoyed if I spent $1,249 on a video card and got 24 FPS. But whatever.

He could configure the sim to make it look more like it would with a $500 video card and get more FPS, but he doesn't. Nothing wrong with a smooth 24fps.


i7-8700K, 16gb DDR4 3200,  GTX1080Ti, Win 10, P3d V5x

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

He could configure the sim to make it look more like it would with a $500 video card and get more FPS, but he doesn't. Nothing wrong with a smooth 24fps.

I doubt Vic would have smooth turns into final approach to KSFO with 24 frames locked with some decent amount of AI, particularly if he flew a jet.

 

Edited by Dirk98

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46 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I'd be pretty annoyed if I spent $1,249 on a video card and got 24 FPS. But whatever.

In "Cities: Skylines" i can bring down my 1080ti to 2 fps easily.

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System: i9 9900k@4.9 - 32 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti --- Sim/Addons: P3D v5 with tons of Addons and 3rd Party Airports
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39 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

I doubt Vic would have smooth turns into final approach to KSFO with 24 frames locked with some decent amount of AI, particularly if he flew a jet.

Sure you can, you just need to have configured AI Companion to limit AI elsewhere.


i7-8700K, 16gb DDR4 3200,  GTX1080Ti, Win 10, P3d V5x

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