8 hours ago, ThrottleUp said:

Why do you all think this is?

Because they wanted a medium sized tubeliner, and a large tubeliner. The A320 and the 737 are very close to the same size, and while the systems are different, the systems aren't likely to be fully reproduced anyway, so the differentiation in flying feel becomes more important.

6 hours ago, FPStewy said:

My personal gut feeling is that there were "deals" made with certain partners in exchange some included resources,

If that had been the case, it would mean they made a deal with PMDG since they've confirmed the 737 NGXu is coming to 2020. But if PMDG was making backroom deals, you'd think they'd prioritize the 747, which is arguably their flagship product, over the 737. Or make a deal for both.

 

8 hours ago, ThrottleUp said:

Furthermore not all of us want a study level sim (I'm aware of the PMDG announcement) so I'm also hoping a dev will make airliners for us casuals at the same level as the stock planes.

I'd think Justflight would be a likely candidate for that.

 

As for all the Zibo comments, I agree with everyone else. The guy's making that plane for free. I'd be amazed if he wanted to port it over to 2020, because if porting between FS and Xplane is not a task a well-staffed outfit like PMDG wants to do for profit, it's certainly not going to be pleasant for a guy to do for free. Besides, Zibo is really, really good for freeware, but by payware standards it's mid-pack at best. Better than Carenado and Justflight, but a far cry from what PMDG, Leonardo, etc are putting out.

 

Edited June 30, 20205 yr by eslader

Zibo B737NG, why? PMDG has already indicated or hinted that a B737NG and maybe the B737Max is coming from them.

I wish a hint on FS2020 aircraft would come from other developers and yes I know there is a NDA.

Darryl 

8 hours ago, ThrottleUp said:

Hi friends 😊

I'm surprised that there is going to be no default 737 (NG or MAX) in the new sim. Why an omission of the one of the worlds most famous workhorse planes? I realize MAX is very new (+ of course its ongoing issues) so maybe they couldn't get much in the way of performance parameters. They should have gone with the NG series like the popular 737-800. 

This way we'd have two of the worlds most popular jets - A320 & 737 - right out of the box. Instead they went from A320 to B748. Why do you all think this is? MS is based right in the Boeing hearland! 737NG data must be coming out of the trees there! 

I feel the same about X-Plane11 which has a fantastic stock 737-800 but no A320 to compliment it. In both sims we must now purchase 3rd party products to fill that gap. Furthermore not all of us want a study level sim (I'm aware of the PMDG announcement) so I'm also hoping a dev will make airliners for us casuals at the same level as the stock planes.

 

 

It's currently in Alpha. I wouldn't assume anything based on what we have seen regarding if it will or won't be included.

When the final release comes along we will certainly know

 

3 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Lol. The zibo 737 is based on resources from Laminar. I am that Austin would just love someone taking his IP in putting it in Microsoft’s new sim!

I wouldn't bet on that!

Zibo is a passion project - the guy doesn't do it for the money, he does it for his personal enjoyment of the technical challenge, AND the appreciative response from the "community".

If that "community" now MOVES en masse to the hugely improved game environment that FS2020 appears to promise (which i think is a distinct possibility), then WHAT would be the attraction of REMAINING to cater for what could then quite likely reduce to (and I speculate!) just an ever-growing backwater?

If PMDG have realized their developer future isn't where it used to be, why shouldn't Zibo also not now realize that new, better, and arguably MORE rewarding skies beckon talented individuals elsewhere?

So what if he has to start all over again ... ?

No Brainer decision in my opinion if I was in his shoes! 

Zibo will of course do whatever he decides, but I have seen enough of FS2020 to have no further interest in X-Plane anymore. 

The tide - it's turning.  And I'm already headed for the exit.

47 minutes ago, Jonnoxx said:

I wouldn't bet on that!

Zibo is a passion project - the guy doesn't do it for the money, he does it for his personal enjoyment of the technical challenge, AND the appreciative response from the "community".

If that "community" now MOVES en masse to the hugely improved game environment that FS2020 appears to promise (which i think is a distinct possibility), then WHAT would be the attraction of REMAINING to cater for what could then quite likely reduce to (and I speculate!) just an ever-growing backwater?

If PMDG have realized their developer future isn't where it used to be, why shouldn't Zibo also not now realize that new, better, and arguably MORE rewarding skies beckon talented individuals elsewhere?

So what if he has to start all over again ... ?

No Brainer decision in my opinion if I was in his shoes! 

Zibo will of course do whatever he decides, but I have seen enough of FS2020 to have no further interest in X-Plane anymore. 

The tide - it's turning.  And I'm already headed for the exit.

The suggestion was that the Zibo 737 was heading for MSFS. It’s a mod of the default Laminar 737, you need to install it over the top of that plane. So that particular aircraft absolutely will not happen, 

As for x-plane users, I don’t think the mood at the .org forums supports your hypothesis that everyone will be leaving that sim.

 

Edited June 30, 20205 yr by OzWhitey

Hello all again,

I have to throw my (actual and considerable) weight into the OzWhitey comment

"As for x-plane users, I don’t think the mood at the .org forums supports your hypothesis that everyone will be leaving that sim." It is sad to reflect on the fact that some of us are making this and similar statements. I cannot believe, and nor can i contemplate that either P3D or Xplane, could suffer the ultimate penalty for being second or third in the Flight Sim race.  I look at the fact that FS2004 was considered defunct a long time ago in the face of FSX and then the Steam version of it. People are STILL using this platform. P3D then overtook FSX which was promptly pronounced dead in the water by a large section of the community. That too survives with a considerable following. This simply proves that there is actually room in our commmunity for more than one sim and that regardless of the platform, there will be the genuine fans and indeed a word not allowed componenent. 

Lets face the fact too, (peacefully please) that just because MSFS is promising so much and generating so much anticipation, this doe not mean that P3D and its future development is not a GREAT sim platform.  In the same vein XPlane11 and its, future development is still a GREAT sim platform. 

To make statements similar to "I am not flying P3D or Xplane any more" is a bit like saying "I am not having eggs on toast for breakfast any more because there is a new brand of cornflakes coming to the market soon." 

Whilst, I respect anyones' right, and I support that right, to make those statements., I simply do not understand the logic behind that kind of decision or thinking. MSFS2020 on the horizon, (in an unknown final form) does not instantly make other sims an unpalatable experience in my opinion.

For the record, I will maintain P3D, Xplane, DCS and Aerofly, in addition to MSFS on my computer, well into the full and final published version of the latter, before (and IF) I start to cull anything. I am enjoying them all and hope to continue to do so for as long as I possibly can.

Just my opinion guys and girls, I have no wish to start a war with these personal comments.

Regards

Tony

X-plane is not going anywhere or slowing down, Jeezus both sims are in double digit versions now. 

I don't think OP will need zibo for MSFS, something like POSky 737NG will do it for him...

In the Threshold interview with Austin , he stated he could sue Zibo (but that it wouldn't make sense to).  Imagine him allowing a mod of laminar work into MFS

 

As much passion as Zibo has put into the mod, there still is alot of Laminar in it.

 

But im sure he has the knowledge now to make a plane from scratch, although he probably wouldnt mind some help . making an airliner from nothing is no small undertaking. I just would be surprised if he gave it away in that case.. but maybe.. (assuming he would even do this)

 

The default MFS sim will have the 747 and the a320  - I think that will be plenty to satisfy our airliner needs ('our' being persons that wont want to buy extra airplanes.. at least not right away)..  I'm a boeing fan , but since im not uninstalling xplane -  I'll still have zibo if i want to fly a narrow body boeing 

53 minutes ago, himmelhorse said:

Hello all again,

I have to throw my (actual and considerable) weight into the OzWhitey comment

"As for x-plane users, I don’t think the mood at the .org forums supports your hypothesis that everyone will be leaving that sim." It is sad to reflect on the fact that some of us are making this and similar statements. I cannot believe, and nor can i contemplate that either P3D or Xplane, could suffer the ultimate penalty for being second or third in the Flight Sim race.  I look at the fact that FS2004 was considered defunct a long time ago in the face of FSX and then the Steam version of it. People are STILL using this platform. P3D then overtook FSX which was promptly pronounced dead in the water by a large section of the community. That too survives with a considerable following. This simply proves that there is actually room in our commmunity for more than one sim and that regardless of the platform, there will be the genuine fans and indeed a word not allowed componenent. 

Lets face the fact too, (peacefully please) that just because MSFS is promising so much and generating so much anticipation, this doe not mean that P3D and its future development is not a GREAT sim platform.  In the same vein XPlane11 and its, future development is still a GREAT sim platform. 

To make statements similar to "I am not flying P3D or Xplane any more" is a bit like saying "I am not having eggs on toast for breakfast any more because there is a new brand of cornflakes coming to the market soon." 

Whilst, I respect anyones' right, and I support that right, to make those statements., I simply do not understand the logic behind that kind of decision or thinking. MSFS2020 on the horizon, (in an unknown final form) does not instantly make other sims an unpalatable experience in my opinion.

For the record, I will maintain P3D, Xplane, DCS and Aerofly, in addition to MSFS on my computer, well into the full and final published version of the latter, before (and IF) I start to cull anything. I am enjoying them all and hope to continue to do so for as long as I possibly can.

Just my opinion guys and girls, I have no wish to start a war with these personal comments.

Regards

Tony

Well said!!!

So many people here are already writing off all other software because MSFS2020 is gonna be the best. None of us know that yet until it’s released in its final form. The death of any of these current products may never happen! I have no intent to dump what I’m using right now until I see what this new software looks like. It could take a couple of years for it to be on par with p3d and xplane. 3rd party aircraft are not just going to magically appear upon release of this new product. Also no one knows what P3D and Xplane are currently working on for the future.

7 hours ago, tpete61 said:

Also no one knows what P3D and Xplane are currently working on for the future.

That may be true... But their options appear VERY limited! 

I predict this situation is going the same way of the early days of some other early software development. 

Remember the word-processing programs like Ami-pro Word-Perfect, and the spreadsheet Lotus 123?

All these were VERY popular. Were even the leaders in their fields in the day (and by significant, wide margins too!) 

Today...? 

They're TOAST! 

ALL of them! And it was a very competitive arena with LOTS of very good programs jostling for attention. And just like now, diehard supporters renouncing the alternatives at every opportunity! 

All this competitive mayhem has finally crystallised today into just SINGLE-PROGRAM dominance. WORD (for word processors), and XCEL (for spreadsheets). The free source Libra, obtains significant following only because it maintains strict compatibility with Word and Xcel. 

Same story in the word of CAD. Autodesk used to be the dominant player. Then upstart SolidWorks appeared on the scene with the revolutionary premise that serious CAD could now be conducted on ordinary PC's. 

Autodesk had an arrogant attitude problem that they were too big to fail, and had this CAD market sewn up for themselves. 

Turns out that SolidWorks cleaned their clock, and is now the dominant mechanical CAD program. And to really rub it in - is now the de facto standard setter! 

My bet is that the SAME tectonic shifts are underway in the gaming (simulation) market. 

And that - again - MS will emerge as the dominant player. 

I fully agree one cannot count one's chickens until the eggs hatch this year end. 

By this time next year, there will be a sufficiently clear view of the trend. Who is winning. And for who demise is inevitable. 

Interesting, exciting times as this Battle Royale plays out ahead! 

 

Agreed.

Different sims have different limitations. X-Plane 11 and P3D v5 are really good at some things, and I'm confident I'll still be flying them in a years time. I'm also absolutely looking forward to MSFS and am not in any way unaware of just what a game-changing sim it's going to be.

Edited July 1, 20205 yr by OzWhitey

16 hours ago, Kopteeni said:

It's a passion project by a perfectionist who gets constant feedback from 737 pilots. I've never used PMDG 737 but Zibo has got really good ingredients to be the most accurate 737 out there.

I have used both extensively. I prefer the NGXu, but there are definitely areas in which the Zibo is better, and I would not go so far a to actually claim that PMDG's version is better or more realistic. For a freeware project, the Zibo is absolutely amazing and is definitely better than some of the payware X-plane jets that I own.

1 hour ago, OzWhitey said:

I have used both extensively. I prefer the NGXu, but there are definitely areas in which the Zibo is better, and I would not go so far a to actually claim that PMDG's version is better or more realistic. For a freeware project, the Zibo is absolutely amazing and is definitely better than some of the payware X-plane jets that I own.

Absolutely. There are so many payware addons for X-Plane that don't even offer a custom FMC. Some of them are even praised for their level of detail. 🤪

I guess in terms of flight dynamics the Zibo might be in front as XP flight dynamics just offer more freedom. But for the system simulation you can see that the Zibo is - like many XP products - a patchwork. But a good one.

@Jonnoxx

 

I dont think Laminar's issue is arrogance per-se. In another thread one of the third party developers for xplane made a good point  (i forget the users name) . Laminars options (being a small company) vs microsoft (big) are limited. Laminars best course has always been to continue doing what they have been doing because thats their only real option. Trying to out spend Microsoft wont work . So they continue to make the best sim they know how with the philosophies and resources they have always used and hope for the best (also keeping in mind that commercial clients have more to do with keeping laminar afloat than consumer)   Ultimately I think they are hoping that 1)  at best Microsoft shoots themselves in the foot again or 2)  at worst they can keep their chunk of the market targeted toward real world training (commercial)  and enough consumers to make up the difference. Really, that's what they are doing now.   with LM i dont know. They dont have an 'austin' that allows himself to be interviewed in a open way. so its harder to know their plans. v5 is a good indication they realize the threat.

and.. I think 1 doesnt seem likely as it appears that MS learned from its past mistakes

 

btw - is autodesk really struggling? their software(s) seem to still be doing pretty well (at least when i listen to 3d enthusiast and insider podcasts, they give that impression) . Maya is doing fair but really their bread is buttered with AutoCAD.. Alot of parts/products are still designed with it. (again im only repeating what ive heard)... and to bring back the comparison... If LR and their commercial clients are still filling the tank of Austins Lancair, I think he will be happy, even with a 'new' player around.

 

And back to ZIbo - its a great product for a simmer that only knows something is not accurate if hes told. Flightdeck2sim's heavy usage of it is a big endorsment (since he is a rw 737 pilot)

 

but would Microsoft even allow project planes like this?

Edited July 1, 20205 yr by Wewk584