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MSFS thread for X-Plane users.

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if you are an Xplane fan, you should rejoice that MSFS exist. It will push LR to finally do something about their awful vanilla scenery. Competition is a good thing. It's about time someone pushes the boundary of what has become acceptable. I do not understand fanboyism. If you really are a fan of aviation, having more options is a good thing. 

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Claude Desrosiers

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Posted (edited)

Most of the X-Plane community are all for competition.  It means advancement, and that's a win/win for everyone (developers, the platform AND the community).  What we DON'T like is the..as you say...fanboyism...of FSX (because I haven't seen a single person in X-Plane say this) with people going on the various forums and say things like RIP X-Plane, X-Plane is going to die, X-Plane will never get as good as FS2020, etc...

I decided to call out someone on facebook for it.  He said X-Plane is dead when FS2020 comes out.  I told him "I bet you $1000 X-Plane won't die."

He actually agreed (and I have the screenshot to prove it...just in case he backed out and deletes his comment).  He asked where should he put the money in the meantime.  I told him "no need now.  Wait until the 18th of August.  If X-Plane dies on the 18th or 19th, I owe you $1000.  If not, you owe me $1000.  Bet.  This will be the easiest $1000 I ever made."

5 minutes later, he deleted his comments.  

Anyway, @fogboundturtle, the people with common sense will agree with you.  Competition is good.  I'm looking forward to it, actually.  It forces me to up my game and make something better than the last project.  But these other comments about X-Plane dying are very boring.  They have been ever since FSX came out.  

X-Plane just came out with Vulkan/Metal.  To me, that is a HUGE step forward.  This now lays the foundation for all new features in the future.  

It'd be nice if we all just got along and started pointing out the pro's and cons of BOTH sims.  Because they both do have them.  And if they're brought forward, something can be done about them.

Edited by GoranM
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1 hour ago, GoranM said:

X-Plane just came out with Vulkan/Metal

About to come out with Vulkan/Metal, currently still in beta, a long and painful (for Laminar) beta 



 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, GoranM said:

 What we DON'T like is the..as you say...fanboyism...

tbh, I dont think fanboyism remotely captures it.

what drives me nuts is the constant drip drip drip of misinformation. Its like water torture.

Nonesense like:

Laminar have done nothing for a decade (aka xp11.50 is no different than ~XP8)

Linux doesnt have VR

Laminar should have added better weather before they modernised the graphics engine

Laminars graphics engine is old and outdated and they have no plans to fix it

addons are a bad thing

Xplane cant side slip

x y or z is otherwise broken in the flight model in xplane 

and the list goes on.

Nothing wrong in anyway with being a "fan" of DX11 or DX12 for example. Im not, Laminars not, hardly any developer is. But DX11 is not "next gen" and Laminar adopting DX12 provides nothing of value.

People getting insulted and angry and feeling the need to mute anyone pointing out the above memes are grounded in misinformation really isnt something that I feel a need to pander to.

 

Edited by mSparks
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AutoATC Developer, Provocateur les x bot

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Posted (edited)

@mSparks I just shrug them all off now.  I'll never change their minds.  I've even seen some these extreme cases of fanboyism comment that the default airliners will be PMDG level.  

I want to burst their bubble, but then I realize they won't listen and I say, "Nah.  I'll let them find out for themselves."

What I find absolutely mind boggling is the people saying "I get crappy fps in X-Plane.  It's not optimally coded...blah blah blah"

Then I see people posting photos of brand new PC parts worth in excess of $3000 and saying "My new FS2020 rig.  Bring on FS2020!!" and at the same time saying "FS2020 will run better than X-Plane!"

SMH doesn't even begin to describe my thoughts.

Edited by GoranM

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GoranM said:

I'll never change their minds.

At least not unless you are willing to price match their salaries imho.

The days of adverts like

Are sadly long gone. Its now all about slipping the paid reviews under the radar.

Edited by mSparks

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There is idiots on both sides of the fence.  Of course default aircraft are not going to be study level plane. We have to come back to reality here. MSFS is not going to be perfect out of the gate either. That's just ridiculous to think otherwise.  Everybody needs to take a deep breath. XP11 or P3D will not go anywhere until there is enough 3rd party content available on MSFS. That could be a while. 

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Claude Desrosiers

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Any MSFS discussion in a X-Plane thread will lead to comparisons and vice versa…

Considering what MSFS is bringing to the table, I think that LR should stick with the mobile app only. What major advances will another version of XP bring in comparison to what folk will have in MSFS?  How long will that take? Is Vulkan even out of Beta yet? Too little…too late.

MSFS has made “serious” advances in rendering the air, land and sea. The discovery series shows just how advanced MSFS is compared to XP11 / P3D. And this is “vanilla” MSFS, no addons etc.

And its not just the SIM, MSFS engagement with the community to win back their confidence is unmatched. From the initial trailer (with millions of views), inviting reviewers out for an initial look (Frooglesim etc), to the weekly updates, to the discovery series, to the Alpha participation,…MSFS has courted the skeptics well.

Finally, MSFS has engaged the 3rd party Devs to get them onboard with developing content, and opened a store in the sim.

LR has too many challenges including getting their sim up to speed with core features (such as weather clouds), maintaining a fan base that will keep 3rd party Devs investing in content, engaging “more” with 3rd party Devs, etc… (I remember Austin reviewing X-envrio…at that time he not had much of an interaction with the developer…..who was trying to improve the “lacking” sky in XP11).

MSFS will be the only sim on my PC come Aug 18. I will not look back to the tons of ground, water, sky ect. addons needed to get XP11 to look better, and “waiting” for the airport list to grow. XP11 was doable when there was nothing really better out there, that all changed a little over a year ago.

P3D and XP will dry up when both the fans and 3rd party Devs migrate to MSFS. Like it or not, MSFS is the best thing that has happened to the flight sim community in the past 10 years…they are bringing you the real world….not a plausible one.

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11 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

if you are an Xplane fan, you should rejoice that MSFS exist. It will push LR to finally do something about their awful vanilla scenery. Competition is a good thing. It's about time someone pushes the boundary of what has become acceptable. I do not understand fanboyism. If you really are a fan of aviation, having more options is a good thing. 

I agree that competition is good, but keep in mind that not everyone has the same priorities in scenery.

You know the one thing default XP scenery has that I really like? There are zero squashed artifacts from low-res ortho photos.

No rows of pixellated blobs representing "cars" in a parking lot. No pixellated blobs on shorelines that are supposed to be boats in a marina. No baked-in shadows.

All of these are artifacts of satellite photos used as a terrain base. Both Orbx and the new MSFS do an amazing job of hiding most of the artifacts, but it only takes one to break immersion for me. Looking at my home town, I'd rather not see the marina at the shoreline at all, than see it shown as fuzzy blobs that I know are just a low-res 2D image.

It's not a deal breaker, I'm still using Orbx TE WA for my home area. But someone should speak up for the one thing it's possible to avoid with Laminar's terrain system. I don't believe Laminar has the infrastructure to use the MSFS streaming system for worldwide ortho-based terrain anyway, so I'm hoping it's possible to extend the current terrain engine into more believable scenery in XP12 without going there.

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X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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1 hour ago, FlyBaby said:

P3D and XP will dry up when both the fans and 3rd party Devs migrate to MSFS.

Finally a flightsim all for myself!

(Okay, myself and @mSparks and three or four other people who do not want to use Windows.)

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13 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

Finally a flightsim all for myself!

(Okay, myself and @mSparks and three or four other people who do not want to use Windows.)

:smile:

He should post the dry up comment in the p3d forum too why just target XP, on a level of resources MS and LM are pretty much on the higher side.  


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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

And its not just the SIM, MSFS engagement with the community to win back their confidence is unmatched.

They got back to any of the smallers devs re the sdk?

..... Ohh you meant sending out the army of minions to trash talk all the other popular sims... Yup, not seen this level of engagement from microsoft since they were out in force explaining how awesome IIS was and how Apache web server was a dead end.

Edited by mSparks
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2 hours ago, mSparks said:

They got back to any of the smallers devs re the sdk?

..... Ohh you meant sending out the army of minions to trash talk all the other popular sims... Yup, not seen this level of engagement from microsoft since they were out in force explaining how awesome IIS was and how Apache web server was a dead end.

MSFS engagement (for a Dev) is top notch.

When you can invite folk to try your sim, and then take them up in a real plane for comparison, you set yourself apart from the rest. When both your trailers and reviewer's vids showcasing your sim get millions of views, you have done something right.

Come Aug 18, folk will be on cloud nine (literally) in MSFS, good luck with getting more than nine clouds in XP11 grouped in a small circle around your plane without tanking performance.

One thing we can say for sure, the minions trash talking MSFS have done nothing to discourage the community from looking at MSFS...that misinformation campaign worked with FSW...but MSFS defeated that tactic with the very first trailer that was more popular than anything that went at a "flight sim" convention held during the same weekend. That...is....engagement.

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2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

Come Aug 18, folk will be on cloud nine (literally) in MSFS

this is your first flight sim launch then?

2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

good luck with getting more than nine clouds in XP11 grouped in a small circle around your plane without tanking performance

doesnt seem to hurt fps in any meaningful way.

2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

One thing we can say for sure, the minions trash talking MSFS

Not something Ive really seen.

Explaining why the hype is lost on us (e.g. once you VR you can never go back to 2D, msfs not having support for our hardware) isnt the insulting trash talk its made out to be.


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