4 minutes ago, mickatmian said:

Sorry but on my British pension I cannot afford to spend £1000+ on a graphics card! also being in my 76 year the pots on my equipment will most probably outlast me.

Mick

A reasonable point. I’m seven years behind you but still want something better than the Saitek. Having met the Fulcrum designer he has an engineering and electrical skill set so is ideally placed to design a great yoke. Plus I’m supporting a British company. 👍

8 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Mick, all potentiometers, whatever their quality, will eventually wear out. I’ve thrown two Saitek throttle quadrants away because of useless pots. It’s not just me so anti-pot. Plenty others are too.

At Cosford in 2019 a real-world 747 pilot said the Fulcrum was as good as the Yoko and half the price. He isn’t considering the Honeycomb. I’ve tried the Honeycomb and it’s not a patch on either but for $200 it’s decent value. Just a slightly better Saitek.

I’m guessing you haven’t tried the Fulcrum. If you had I’m sure you’d have a different opinion.

Ray, you seem intent on trashing the Honeycomb yoke and it is tiresome. Nobody is saying the Fulcrum is a potential winner, but you could leave it at that. To compare the Honeycomb's potentiometers with the trashy throw-away quality ones in the Saitek quadrant is disingenuous.

17 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

Ray, you seem intent on trashing the Honeycomb yoke and it is tiresome. Nobody is saying the Fulcrum is a potential winner, but you could leave it at that. To compare the Honeycomb's potentiometers with the trashy throw-away quality ones in the Saitek quadrant is disingenuous.

No Mark, I’m not trashing it. I’m voicing my opinion on a yoke I first saw at Lelystad in 2017 in 3D printed mode which unfortunately couldn’t be demonstrated because it had broken in transit.

I then saw it at Lelystad the following year and Aerosoft didn’t even bother setting it up for people to try. It was just left on a desk. Same at Cosford that year when the elevator axis was incredibly stiff. Someone mentioned here it was still too stiff.

It’s been built to a price. It’s not just the pots it uses. It’s the overall feel which personally I think is worse than the Saitek.

1 hour ago, mickatmian said:

You will be telling us next that x-plane, p3d etc. are games!

Sorry, but when you get used to the metalic feel of higher-quality joysticks/yokes it is really hard going back to plastic. But for the price asked, the Honeycomb may be an acceptable solution.

16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s been built to a price. It’s not just the pots it uses. It’s the overall feel which personally I think is worse than the Saitek.

Ray' you are being totally unreasonable here, how can you possibly know the overall feel is worse than the Saitek (which I can assure you it is not) when you freely admit you have not tried it fixed to a desk?

2 minutes ago, mickatmian said:

Ray' you are being totally unreasonable here, how can you possibly know the overall feel is worse than the Saitek (which I can assure you it is not) when you freely admit you have not tried it fixed to a desk?

I tried it at Cosford last year so I’m speaking through personal experience. It did not impress me.

19 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Sorry, but when you get used to the metalic feel of higher-quality joysticks/yokes it is really hard going back to plastic. But for the price asked, the Honeycomb may be an acceptable solution.

My memory may be failing but did this stick have problems with a sticking gimbal?

For information the shaft and bearings on the Honeycomb yoke are metal.

I am not trying to defend my Honeycomb yoke purchase as in my price range it is a perfect fit and I have no regrets.

Whatever the op decides to purchase I wish you well and hope this thread has been some help.

Mick

6 minutes ago, mickatmian said:

My memory may be failing but did this stick have problems with a sticking gimbal?

For information the shaft and bearings on the Honeycomb yoke are metal.

I am not trying to defend my Honeycomb yoke purchase as in my price range it is a perfect fit and I have no regrets.

Whatever the op decides to purchase I wish you well and hope this thread has been some help.

Mick

Not sure, I am mostly talking about the exterior and where you place your hands. I believe the Honeycomb for sure is an improvement when compared to the Saitek, but I still felt it had lower quality materials almost everywhere.

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

Not sure, I am mostly talking about the exterior and where you place your hands.

As already mentioned, Warthog mechanics (both the stick and the throttle) is cheap brittle plastic all over. Add to this a stick gimbal design which is prone to breaking quite easily when twisted and Zamac joint between the grip and the gimbal which is breaking as well. I've seen/ fixed enough broken Warthogs to be sure of that. So in fact for the asking price Wathog is a pure rip-off- no mater how nice it is to the touch.

£350 that`s not what it`s saying now, £429 now.

9 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

As already mentioned, Warthog mechanics (both the stick and the throttle) is cheap brittle plastic all over. Add to this a stick gimbal design which is prone to breaking quite easily when twisted and Zamac joint between the grip and the gimbal which is breaking as well. I've seen/ fixed enough broken Warthogs to be sure of that. So in fact for the asking price Wathog is a pure rip-off- no mater how nice it is to the touch.

I am aware of this, but having used mine almost daily for 4 years, I can’t complain. It is an extremely popular stick among the hardcore DCS community for a reason. 
 

If one uses civilian sims exclusively, I wouldn’t recommend it though. 

23 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

No Mark, I’m not trashing it. I’m voicing my opinion on a yoke I first saw at Lelystad in 2017 in 3D printed mode which unfortunately couldn’t be demonstrated because it had broken in transit.

I then saw it at Lelystad the following year and Aerosoft didn’t even bother setting it up for people to try. It was just left on a desk. Same at Cosford that year when the elevator axis was incredibly stiff. Someone mentioned here it was still too stiff.

It’s been built to a price. It’s not just the pots it uses. It’s the overall feel which personally I think is worse than the Saitek.

So far we seem to have learned that your sole experience with the product is a quick go at a trade show while someone held it still on the table. Accordingly, I think your assertions about the yoke would sit better if you offered them more tentatively.

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by MarkDH

1 minute ago, MarkDH said:

So far we seem to have learned that your sole experience with the product is a quick go at a trade show while someone held it still on the table. Accordingly, I think your assertions about the yoke would sit better if you offered them more tentatively.

Wrong! At the 2019 Cosford show a company had both the Honeycomb yoke and throttle quadrant setup with P3D. I sat down and used it as I would mine.

Your criticism is beginning to annnoy me. If you think the Honeycomb is such a great yoke sing its praises yourself instead of having a go at my opinion which I'm perfectly entitled to.

On 8/1/2020 at 10:20 AM, TacomaSailor said:

Thanks for any input. 

Ask and you shall receive. Requesting opinions on a better yoke is like asking which sim is the best.

I was in the same position as you. I have a complete CH system: yoke, throttle quadrant, and pedals. Probably 10 years old now, still working, but the pots do seem to be getting a little worn out. I wanted something better and decided on the complete Warthog Hotas System: Throttle, Joystick, and TPR pedals because of the claimed added precision of the Hall Effect Sensors. I was not disappointed. The biggest improvement was going from the CH Pedals to the TPR pedals. Much improved tail dragger control. See my avatar picture? That was taken trying to fly the A2A Mustang with my CH setup. I went from a washed out cadet to an Ace in the Mustang by changing hardware (just kidding to illustrate my point )

Have you ever tried to precisely set a certain throttle manifold pressure or N1 setting and found that you could set it just below what you wanted or just above but never exactly? This is the area of improvement that Warthog Hotas setup gave me. Think precise throttle settings, precise rudder control in tail-draggers, and rubber band aileron/elevator controls replaced by steel cables.

What I liked about the Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas Setup:

1) Precise control

2) Heavy. They stay in place without needing clamps.

3) Relative to the CH system, they don't feel like fragile toys.

4) Good Value. Each component was about $500.

5) Lots, and I mean lots of programmable buttons.

6) Throttle can control 2 engines independently or be linked as one.

7) Throttle has a third slider that can be used for prop control or mixture.

The only disadvantage of the Warthog Setup for me is it has a right handed joystick and not a yoke so it is not so easy to switch hands while flying to operate radios, FMC if you are right handed. If you are left handed then you will be comfortable operating the mouse with your left hand but the throttle might feel weird. It is designed for fighter jet flying. It is very good for that and single seat GA i.e. J3 Cub. It is not so good when flying commercial and airline aircraft as you need a free hand to work the FMC, autopilot, pan around the cockpit to find that lost switch, call the flight attendant, etc.

For large GA and airliner flying I am going to buy a yoke and 6 lever throttle quadrant. The yoke I am leaning toward is the Fulcrum as it has Hall Effect Sensors and is metal. Also I trust Ray's opinion from demo-ing various yokes at flight sim conferences. That is how I decided on the Thrustmaster Warthog. Plus I know Ray is a picky son of a gun. 

As far as reliability, they seem pretty darn solid to me. Much more than my CH products. My very first joystick was a Thrustmaster Top Gun. It was released shortly after the first Top Gun movie and it still works fine. They still make a similar product with a different name and color but I wouldn't recommend it as an upgrade for you. For someone looking for a good starting system I highly recommend it.

I am not bashing the CH products. For someone just getting into flight simming they are a great start. You said that you wanted something better, specifically for the J3 Cub. The Warthogs would be great for that.

Josh mentioned the Virtual Fly products which look good also. I have no experience with them but can see that they are a bit more than what I purchased. If the Fulcrum yoke doesn't meet my expectations I may have to pay the piper more for the Virtual Fly yoke.

Anyway, the Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas system has been a pleasing upgrade for me and looked like the least expensive option to get Hall Effect Sensors.

It is unfortunate that flight sim conferences have been canceled due to Covid as these were great events to try out different hardware controls.

Good Hunting,

Ted

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

Josh mentioned the Virtual Fly products which look good also. I have no experience with them but can see that they are a bit more than what I purchased. If the Fulcrum yoke doesn't meet my expectations I may have to pay the piper more for the Virtual Fly yoke.

Love all of my VF gear and the yoke doesn't disappoint. There TQ6 is also a solid product. But what impressed me the most are the Ruddo rudder pedals. Having had the Saitek and MFG crosswinds there is no comparison. These thing just work and feel great( it took abit of retraing with heals on the ground but now its so natural) .

I hope the Fulcrum works out for everyone that's been waiting for a quality yoke at a more affordable price. Hopefully really soon.  Once you feel a quality controller you cant go back to the plastic.