"

2 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Who?

Actually i didn't read anything about a Dev dropping other sims completely. 

"Overtures" - "an introduction to something more substantial." Obviously, no developer is going to explicitly state they're going to end support for products they currently sell.  However, the OVERTURES are diffidently present.  How long do you think developers are going to produce a product that limits their abilities, or develop a product that requires 'hacks' to achieve a desired result?  Go read Aerosoft and PMDG statements and tell me if you still believe there's enthusiasm to develop for an archaic architecture.  Also, said add-on developers have an opportunity to developer for a main stream title, how much longer do you think they'll develop for a niche market?  The return on investment simply won't be there.  Again, to be clear, I never suggested an explicit statement concerning the termination of support for P3D. You probably won't see those statement until after FS releases and the market begins to develop.  However, if you apply abstract thinking and commonsense, you can start to see the beginning of the end.   

 

22 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

I realize you have positioned yourself (self-identified) as LM/P3D public defender;  so, reasoning with you is probably a futile task.  For curiosity sake, do you derive intellectual and/or social affirmation from your public defense role? Is that why you self-anointed yourself to the position?  Regardless, I humbly request you summon your cognitive abilities and actually formulate a cogent argument that supports your supposition.  In case you forgot, the following was extracted from your post: “P3D will remain a strong contender for those who are simming rather than gamming.”  Said statement implicitly implies that MSFS is directed at the latter and not the former.  Yet, you fail to offer any supporting arguments to support your notion.  At the risk of further exposing your ignorance (probably too late?), I’ll ask how you reached said conclusion?  To that point, I’ll ask again, do you believe the PMDG 737 will be less capable in MSFS than P3D? If I can control/fly a PMDG aircraft from my home cockpit on the VATSIM network, how does my simming experience differ from P3D?  If the answers is is it doesn’t, how do you justify your aforementioned statement?

Also, it’s comical how you conflate enthusiasm for MSFS with bashing P3D.   The latter is a fine simulator; however, the need to acquire, maintain, and launch 10+ add-ons to achieve a realistic environment is exhausting and unnecessary in 2020.  To that point, the next-generation of SIMMING is here; a significant portion of major add-on developers (e.g. PMDG, Aerosoft, etc…) are gushing and excited over its capabilities, which fails to correlate with your ‘gamming thesis.’  Have you read RR latest musings?  Do you know more than they do?

Matt, it seems you've sobered up now, but you still seem to think that what you posted while drunk is somehow defensible.

Firstly - for those who are confused - let me quote the post I made that set you off:

"We're two weeks out, which is an interesting time. We have now seen quite a lot of the new sim, some good, some bad.

I have defended P3Dv5's honor whenever I have felt it necessary to do so. It's a fine sim that has been trashed far too many time on this forum over recent months.

Will v5.1 be enough to keep P3D in the centre lane? Unlikely that the masses will be convinced, but there's at least a chance that it will remain a strong contender for those who are simming rather than gaming (without wanting to restart that argument!)

DX12 is a promising step, now they just need to get EA humming along properly.

I'll be flying MSFS on the 18th - and have been watching the videos with a fair degree of excitement - but there's no way that I'm dumping P3D just because there's a new game in town with a bit more eye candy."

Now, let me try and work through your latest post:

"I realize you have positioned yourself (self-identified) as LM/P3D public defender;"

- I am happy to defend Prepar3d from those who wish to trash it ON A PREPAR3D forum. I don't go around the .org forums banging on about P3D. On r/hoggit, I just talk about DCS. You may have possibly forgotten where you are posting if you think being positive about P3D is somehow odd.

" so, reasoning with you is probably a futile task."

- happy to have a sensible conversation, but you're the one who wrote a rambling list of angry straw man arguments directed at me.

"For curiosity sake, do you derive intellectual and/or social affirmation from your public defense role? Is that why you self-anointed yourself to the position?"

- I think the Prepar3d forum should be a place where people who fly this sim can discuss it without being trolled by those who don't like it/want to continuously remind us of other sims. I certainly don't do it because I feel the need for "intellectual affirmation", but well done for your attempt at amateur psychoanalysis!

“P3D will remain a strong contender for those who are simming rather than gamming. Said statement implicitly implies that MSFS is directed at the latter and not the former.  Yet, you fail to offer any supporting arguments to support your notion."

- well, you left out the part of the quote where I said (without wanting to restart that argument!). But seeing as you seem to want to argue...Firstly, it is beyond dispute that the two programs are designed for different target audiences, as Prepar3d is overtly NOT for entertainment use. Secondly, what I said doesn't in any way suggest that MSFS is not for simmers. If you think that, you are either being intellectually dishonest or stupid. See: "straw man argument".

 "At the risk of further exposing your ignorance (probably too late?), I’ll ask how you reached said conclusion?  To that point, I’ll ask again, do you believe the PMDG 737 will be less capable in MSFS than P3D? If I can control/fly a PMDG aircraft from my home cockpit on the VATSIM network, how does my simming experience differ fromIf the answers is is it doesn’t, how do you justify your aforementioned statement? P3D?"

See, there you go again. If I suggest that some people interested in simulation may continue to use P3D v5.1 if it is good, only an imbecile - or someone trying to pick a fight - would think that means that people wanting to sim can not use MSFS. See again "Straw man argument". You are making a lengthy (and insulting) attack ON SOMETHING THAT NEITHER I OR ANYONE ELSE SAID. 

Just to point out how far off base you are here. I personally fly with a Prosim-based 737 home cockpit (some of the time). When MSFS comes out, Prosim will not be supported, so I have been making a GA cockpit for SIMMING WITH MSFS. When Prosim supports MSFS - which is planned - I anticipate changing to that platform for the home cockpit part of my flying, as it will handle external visuals very nicely. I also plan to continue using Prepar3d v5 for the things that it does well.

"Also, it’s comical how you conflate enthusiasm for MSFS with bashing P3D."

Glad you find it funny. The Prepar3d fliers who have put up with every second thread in their forum being derailed for months with talk about MSFS might not find it so amusing. When I want to post about MSFS - which I do frequently - I do it IN THE MSFS FORUM.

"The latter is a fine simulator; however, the need to acquire, maintain, and launch 10+ add-ons to achieve a realistic environment is exhausting and unnecessary in 2020."

I am flying P3D right now and I launched 2 add-ons - Littlenavmap and ActiveSkyP3D. MSFS would still require one of those to achieve the same functionality.

"‘gamming thesis."

You keep typing this as though it is a clever dig at me. "Gammers" was YOUR neologism, used in your original, semi-literate drunk post.

"Have you read RR latest musings?"  

Yes. In fact I've spent the last year reading and learning about everything I can related to both P3D and MSFS.

"Do you know more than they do?"

Probably not, certainly never claimed that I did. See once again: "Straw man argument".

OK, well that pretty much wraps it up. I probably should have been flying rather than typing that, but <shrug>. Back to the MD-82 at VNKT now.

Cheers!

 

5 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

Only the smallest dev that just cannot afford to develop for more than one sim will do that. The medium and large developers will produce for whatever market is available. XP and P3D are not going to disappear. There will be three good sims to develop for. Who ever said this was an EITHER/OR situation? 

Vic

Not necessarily, Vic.  It's about return on investment; even the large companies will begin to shift support once the market shifts...the same reasons why the major developers no longer produce titles for FSX or P3D 1 -4, even though some simmers still use them. 

I don't think P3D is going to go away.  In fact, I'm excited to see what P3Dv6 will be like.

Hook

Some people on this forum seem to want it both ways where they can simultaneously dunk on anyone who's excited about MFS and not get called out for being elitist and obnoxious. If you find criticism of P3D so offensive, go create your own forum and put a password on it.

3 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Some people on this forum seem to want it both ways where they can simultaneously dunk on anyone who's excited about MFS and not get called out for being elitist and obnoxious. If you find criticism of P3D so offensive, go create your own forum and put a password on it.

To be fair, Alex...it's really only one person; the self-anointed P3D public defender.  

23 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I don't think P3D is going to go away.  In fact, I'm excited to see what P3Dv6 will be like.

Hook

I don't believe it's going away either, Hook; however, I do believe you'll see a termination of third party development sooner rather than later. 

3 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

however, I do believe you'll see a termination of third party development sooner rather than later. 

I'm not going to guess.  Not all developers are in a hurry to embrace MSFS.  One major developer said (but not in these words), we're in no hurry but we may be forced into MSFS at some point.

Hook

2 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I'm not going to guess.  Not all developers are in a hurry to embrace MSFS.  One major developer said (but not in these words), we're in no hurry but we may be forced into MSFS at some point.

Hook

I think we're in agreement, Hook; we only disagree on when the market is going to shift.  I simply believe it's going to be a pretty quick transition. My supposition is based on the 16 year gap between MS development; to that point, this is the largest single leap we've seen in flight simulation development in four decades. This is not FS9 to FSX or P3D v4 to v5...it's FS5 to FSX. Time will tell, my friend.   

21 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

To be fair, Alex...it's really only one person; the self-anointed P3D public defender.  

Matt, you're the one who started the whole "being obnoxious" thing here. I wrote a balanced post suggesting P3D may have a future. You were the one who decided to pick a fight for no good reason.

Also, you were the one who has annointed me "P3D's public defender", not me. I'm a fan of the sim, and have been since the v1 release. Had a lot of good times with it, and am still doing so now. If you think there's something wrong with defending it from trolls IN A PREPAR3D forum, so be it.

Edited August 8, 20205 yr by OzWhitey

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

Who ever said this was an EITHER/OR situation? 

Mmmm.  Fans! who want the rest of Us to adopt whatever they use and ditch what we want.

Edited August 8, 20205 yr by RamonB

26 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Some people on this forum seem to want it both ways where they can simultaneously dunk on anyone who's excited about MFS and not get called out for being elitist and obnoxious. If you find criticism of P3D so offensive, go create your own forum and put a password on it.

Well, seeing as that is presumably also directed at me, Chap. Let me say that I've go no problem with people discussing the pros and cons of any sim. The weird thing is that when I post about how I like P3D, a lot of people think that that means I hate MSFS. Which is stupid, as I've posted many, many times about how excited I am for 18th August. I just don't going around derailing every thread in THIS forum talking about it!  

I think this is more than a minor point. For better or worse, this forum is the main place on the internet on which Prepar3d discussions are held. It's an enthusiasts forum, just like r/hoggit, xplane.org forums or the MSFS forums right here on Avsim.

If it becomes a place for people to whinge about Prepar3d - and there has been a LOT of that around here of late - or talk about how Prepar3d has no future because of another sim, then this forum loses its purpose. Go back a couple of years and take a look, and you'll see that there were a lot more high-yield posts that you could actually learn things from. A lot of those posters have moved on. I sometimes think of doing the same, but there's not really another home for us Prepar3d fans elsewhere on the web.

What I'd love to see is this place returning to (or discovering) the kind of atmosphere places like the .org forums have. A community that actually cares about the sim platform that they're talking about. Yes, we'll complain there about all sorts of things regarding X-plane, but at the end of the day we're still positive and excited about the sim. For those who really want to talk about other platforms, there's a nice little well-defined place to do it.

It's not about trying to stifle discussion. It's just that no enthusiast forum can prosper if it's overrun by negative posts about the product/game/simulation that the forum is supposed to be celebrating.

34 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

What I'd love to see is this place returning to (or discovering) the kind of atmosphere places like the .org forums have. A community that actually cares about the sim platform that they're talking about. Yes, we'll complain there about all sorts of things regarding X-plane, but at the end of the day we're still positive and excited about the sim. For those who really want to talk about other platforms, there's a nice little well-defined place to do it.

It's not about trying to stifle discussion. It's just that no enthusiast forum can prosper if it's overrun by negative posts about the product/game/simulation that the forum is supposed to be celebrating.

Only possible way to do that is moderate EVERY post before it is posted which unfortunately is not at all practical. I believe it will get worse down the road due to the influx of many new xbox type simmers. Not picking on a group but there will be a lot of young first timers used to the reddit type of posting. It comes with the territory and we do try to keep the noise to a minimum. 

Several years back with FSX and then P3D there was a huge outpouring of tweaks and fixes which led to a lot of very informative posts; With the new player on the block (MSFS2020) I think that will open up again and the community starts tweaking.

Vic

I'm still excited about P3D, it's just that I'm excited by what P3Dv6 might offer.  Currently I'm still looking for a reason to upgrade from v4.5 to v5. 🙂 

Hook

Larry;

I still remember Your post "Why do we need 24000 airports?" And how much You like to to fly and explore the Globe.
Can't give You specific reasons to upgrade to v5, so I will just state this:

P3D v5 runs much smoother in my PC, I have it locked at 30 fps with 100+ addons. It loads much faster (very important for me as I spend a good deal of my sim time modding airports or writing gauges), Hardly see any stutters; tree popping is still present but less noticeable. (Blame it on better use of Hardware and updated code by LM).  Also the SDK has some additions. (Lights anybody)

I use HiFi ASP3D beta + TrueSky enabled, and the sky looks FANTASTIC!
Usually takeoff a bit before dawn or up to an hour before dusk.

TrueSky is beta and has glitches (like the horrible halo's around trees most visible when at airports), but I can disable it when I want to fool around taxiing, or taking screenshots at ground level.

I have v4 installed with all addons, and runs fine, but haven't fired it up since v5+HF2.
As for P3D overall.  Given LM track record to deliver, it can only get better.

Cheers.

 

Edited August 8, 20205 yr by RamonB