Competition? Really?

[Ricardo41 5,964]

What has the "competition" between X-Plane and P3D done for either sim?

For me, the point is extremely simple: looking at all the preview videos, I feel that for the first time in a long time, I can buy the base simulator and not feel the need to immediately shell out $2000 just to get it to an acceptable visual level. 

And, of course, there aren't $2000 to shell out yet. So, double win!

Edited August 12, 2020 by Ricardo41

[d.tsakiris 423]

Besides a lot of the OP's points being redundant: Visually, MFS wins hands down. The base scenery is (almost) all we simmers could hope for.

But a simulator is more than that. At the moment, to me, and extrapolating from beta version videos, it doesn't look like, at launch, it will offer the functionality that P3D does (I don't know XP,  so I can't comment on it, but I believe something similar applies). Put differently: I don't think I will immediately be able to do most of the flights in MFS I've been doing the last few years in FSX and P3D. And that's mostly - if not entirely - thanks to the add-ons.

Now, of course add-ons will be developed and released for MFS, no doubt (and I hope they will come with a discount for loyal customers like me ;). But that will take time. And during that time, P3D will also be developed further and become better. So, one or two years from now, which sim will be better? Probably still MFS. But I don't believe the other sims won't be left in the dust like some here think.

[eslader 1,820]

The biggest barrier to competition is the global map. Everything else is - flight model, making airplanes, etc - relatively easy. But few companies have the resources to compile global geo/photographic data the way Microsoft has. Google did it (and, honestly, did it better) but their "flight simulator" was uh... Less than wonderful. Good thing it was free.

I can easily see competition from other companies as long as buyers don't want full global scenery. I suspect DCS will do just fine, for instance, because despite only having a very small portion of the world available to fly in, it's excellent in its own right. Thanks to its niche genre, it does not *need* to depict the entire world.  After all, not a whole lot of F-18 vs MiG dogfighting going on over Cleveland.

But I think going forward, unless Google wants to create a real flight sim (unlikely) or the CIA wants to create one (only slightly more likely 😉 ) or Google decides to license its data in perpetuity for a one-time-fee to Xplane (doubtful either party would be interested), then there's just not gonna be a global civilian flight sim on the order of MSFS any time soon.

 

 

[spilok 1,139]

56 minutes ago, Bottle said:

When the Superior Premium Deluxe Hibernating Bear expansion is released this sim will totally wipe the floor with all the other sims.

 

I don’t expect Asobo to rest on their laurels if indeed the competition eventually evaporates, but let’s hope that flight dimming doesn’t become monolithic again.

“What would have become of Hercules do you think if there had been no lion, hydra, stag or boar – and no savage criminals to rid the world of? What would he have done in the absence of such challenges? Obviously he would have just rolled over in bed and gone back to sleep. So by snoring his life away in luxury and comfort he never would have developed into the mighty Hercules. And even if he had, what good would it have done him? What would have been the use of those arms, that physique, and that noble soul, without crises or conditions to stir into him action?” Epictetus, c50 - 135 AD

This is an excellent point.  It is, without doubt, so true.  My point, as the OP, was NOT to denigrate the competition, but to help create the talking points for a renewed competitive challenge.  I certainly hope, and I believe it to be true, that all involved in making these wonderful products, hear what their customers are saying.  This forum accomplishes that. 

As Microsoft Bill Gates reputedly said, "If it ain't broke....BREAK IT!".  Truly, that's the only way progress occurs.  We can never be content with what we have; otherwise, we'd all be in a horse driven buggy.  From what I've heard, the horse and buggy worked.

Stan

[Dominique_K 10,152]

27 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

What has the "competition" between X-Plane and P3D done for either sim?

 

An interesting question. It is sometimes good and healthy to put our own common wisdom into question.  I would say, off my head, not much. We see two solutions coexisting without much competitive interaction.

Actually the question has no real answer because predicting the alternative, what the market would look like with one sim only is by definition a speculation. Competition is in general a factor of efficiency,   innovation is more driven by needs. 

[eslader 1,820]

Yeah, but one party doesn't care about sales and the other party doesn't care about sales to "gamers." 

Xplane is a passion project for Austin. If someone throws him money for it, great, but that's not really why he's doing it.

And P3D sales to those of us who are not running flight training facilities is more of a "hey, we made it already, if you wanna give us money that's OK."

It's been a very long time since the home end-user has actually been catered to. That's gonna be an interesting change.

 

[officercrockey 196]

2 hours ago, ShawnG said:

Sure, however if you build a new pc, you will be doing a reinstall.  And if you have a lot of addons, it’s a nightmare.

Yes but that is true for every simulator and is not going to change a lot probably.

[Doug47 574]

If people are posting on the P3D forum how to remove it from their HDD’s, and it isn’t even released yet, I guess game over for the other sims. 
 

To be fair, they were moderately successful for a time. 
 

But roll on progress. And out with the old. 💥

Edited August 12, 2020 by Doug47

[Bert Pieke 7,594]

1 hour ago, Doug47 said:

If people are posting on the P3D forum how to remove it from their HDD’s, and it isn’t even released yet, I guess game over for the other sims. 
 

To be fair, they were moderately successful for a time. 
 

But roll on progress. And out with the old. 💥

I think you are getting ahead of yourself.. 😉

[Wobbie 938]

I dont think that MSFS is actually competition to another sim, as it will be far more complete than any other. 

However a comparison cost wise is worth looking at:

We have MSFs ranging from $60-$120 vs X-Plane at $60 & P3D Academic at $60. So much of a muchness as basic costings.

However, the catch comes it at hardware costs to get MSFS optimal.

So, you have to add PC hardware upgrade costs into the mix. There are also some of us that fly their existing sims on laptops. Most will fall over when flying the new sim.

So, going for the top MSFS version will add another $60 to the overall costs as well. 

As for the 'foreign' out of USA simmers, where we have currency issues as well, it works out very expensive..

By the way, Doug47 LM has actually been very successful with P3D, with regard to their actual training market. Have a look at RedBird & you will see what their products are, for their market. 

 https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/  & https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/products

 

[ComSimPilot 623]

It seems to me there are so many people eager to bash all sims for MSFS. Don't get me wrong, I will fall in love with MSFS but this idea that it will make all other sims disappear the day its released is so wrong. The question to ask is "why someone would not uninstall P3D/XP" ? And the simple answer is "advanced modeled aircraft". Yes sightseeing is amazing and brings realism to a new level but not ALL simmers would give everything for MSFS weather and scenery. There is no point to start writing examples of airplanes not available in a "training level" quality in MSFS. There are so many work hours put in P3D and XP for airliners, regional and general aviation aircraft. If you look at my signature under "Fleet" you can see how many. Even if many of these become available in MSFS they won't be all. 

So, please lets end this "there will be only one sim". It is unrealistic to believe that all these aircraft will be available in MSFS. Some developers won't develop for MSFS and even if 2 of these wont, I see no reason to uninstall P3D or XP...ever. I will happily fly all 3 sims, like I had been doing already with XP and P3D. And even in those days, when there was no MSFS announced, we all remember how many threads there were of people arguing why P3D or XP is superior. People should open their eyes and see what each platform and platform specific developers has to offer to the simmer. It is not one way or the other, it is all together, platforms and developers becoming better in parallel. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by ComSimPilot

[Andreas Stangenes 1,628]

I just think people are chatting. Why would anyone want a sim to dissapear? It sounds childish to wish that. And I certainly don't wish any harm to Austin Meyer. I really appreciate that guy and the passion he has (even anti-xp people admit it, at least some of them hehe). 

I think this conversation would go easier if people talk for themselves and not others. For my part, I have enough room on my 3 samsung evo disks to hold MSFS, P3D and XP, and so I dont see the need to delete anything untill my discs get a bit cramped. When it comes to flying the old sims, well... Maybe I'll want to fly the pdmg stuff or fslabs or a2a for a bit, and it might feel different when I actually have access to MSFS. Right now Im flying xp11 and it just feels do darned drab. So lifeless. It just pulls the joy out of the sim, but maybe that wont be the case when I can fly msfs whenever I want. Then I can just jump into xp11 for a bit to study systems or something. 

[SAS443 1,742]

my playing time since may 2020

XP11 : 15hrs

P3Dv5: 25hrs

FS2020: 30hrs

I will continue using three sims since they all have their respective strenghts. (and platform exclusive addons, although FS2020 will close that gap at quite rapid pace)

[arsenal82 120]

4 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

I think once we get 3rd party aircraft there won't be much competition.

very likely those 3rd party aircraft will be a watered down version of what we have in fsx and p3d; more for the entertainment crowds.

 

[Doug47 574]

36 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I think you are getting ahead of yourself.. 😉

Let's come back in 12 months time shall we? 😊