36 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

I dont think that MSFS is actually competition to another sim, as it will be far more complete than any other. 

However a comparison cost wise is worth looking at:

We have MSFs ranging from $60-$120 vs X-Plane at $60 & P3D Academic at $60. So much of a muchness as basic costings.

However, the catch comes it at hardware costs to get MSFS optimal.

So, you have to add PC hardware upgrade costs into the mix. There are also some of us that fly their existing sims on laptops. Most will fall over when flying the new sim.

So, going for the top MSFS version will add another $60 to the overall costs as well. 

As for the 'foreign' out of USA simmers, where we have currency issues as well, it works out very expensive..

By the way, Doug47 LM has actually been very successful with P3D, with regard to their actual training market. Have a look at RedBird & you will see what their products are, for their market. 

 https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/  & https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/products

 

Wonder how many simmers qualified for Academic?  I certainly don't.  My P3d's cost me $200 each time.

Stan

32 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

 

By the way, Doug47 LM has actually been very successful with P3D, with regard to their actual training market. Have a look at RedBird & you will see what their products are, for their market. 

 https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/  & https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/products

 

Not sure what a company that makes simulators that uses P3D (could probably use FS98) has to do with using it for entertainment purposes? 

Seriously, once you have your favorite payware airplane add-on in MSFS, will anyone go back? 

"Look, I can see my house and a million other distinguishable objects, buildings, stadiums, fields with the exact farm in real life and trees in the same location, but I'll return to P3D to fly the same airplane and cant see jack squat and nothing but repeatable tiles".

Good luck!

 

17 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

Seriously, once you have your favorite payware airplane add-on in MSFS, will anyone go back? 

"Look, I can see my house and a million other distinguishable objects, buildings, stadiums, fields with the exact farm in real life and trees in the same location, but I'll return to P3D to fly the same airplane and cant see jack squat and nothing but repeatable tiles".

Good luck!

 

Why you assume that everyone has "one" favorite aircraft that would be enough to ditch all the others. Have a look on my signature under "Fleet". Can I fly all these in MSFS in the same quality level as P3D/XP? If I can't you have your answer. I will go back to P3D/XP to fly them. In realistic IFR flying, you have not much time to see all these objects you described. Managing systems, engines, avionics and ATC is exciting enough for me to fly in P3D/XP for many years to come. 

2 hours ago, eslader said:

The biggest barrier to competition is the global map

With respect, I suggest you look again at the weather feature discovery video and the Meteoblue Partnership video.

45 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

Let's come back in 12 months time shall we? 😊

That would be a good time to have this conversation... You are on!

🙂

2 minutes ago, Bottle said:

With respect, I suggest you look again at the weather feature discovery video and the Meteoblue Partnership video.

Meh. 

Yes, those are great things, and it's fantastic to have them in the sim out of the box. That "meh" doesn't mean I'm unimpressed by them. But as with flight dynamics, etc, it's relatively easy. 

I don't mean it's *easy,* but once you program the sim weather engine you can deploy it world wide. A supercell thunderstorm in India is pretty similar to a supercell thunderstorm in Iowa. Icing works the same no matter where in the world you are. A Cessna's flight model doesn't change no matter where you are. That stuff is very important and very impressive, but it isn't a killer app 

However, rendering Iowa's geography, terrain textures, and buildings... Well. That's great when you're flying over Iowa but it doesn't exactly look right when you're flying over Mumbai. Either you have a global photogrammetric database and an AI that can make it work in the sim, or you hire about eleventy-jillion graphic artists to draw it out by hand. Otherwise, you can't hope to compete with what MSFS is promising to bring to the table as far as global scenery goes. 

 

1 hour ago, arsenal82 said:

very likely those 3rd party aircraft will be a watered down version of what we have in fsx and p3d; more for the entertainment crowds.

 

This is sarcasm right?  3rd party planes will be more watered down?  I think you mean they'll be more advanced and be able to take advantage of the new flight model.

1 minute ago, eslader said:

 But as with flight dynamics, etc, it's relatively easy. 

...... A Cessna's flight model doesn't change no matter where you are. That stuff is very important and very impressive, but it isn't a killer app 

 

I think you are underestimating the challenge of creating a convincing flight model...

Creating the sensation of real flight is actually a killer app.. lets see if Asobo delivers..!

🙂

1 hour ago, Doug47 said:

Seriously, once you have your favorite payware airplane add-on in MSFS, will anyone go back?

I don't need every small detail modeled, but it needs to feel authentic. If they manage to do that and decent addons roll in, I don't think that I will still use XP. Especially as the addon quality is quite mediocre aside from popular aircraft series. Like regional or business jets. Keyword: Authentic FMC / Avionics.

10 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I think you are underestimating the challenge of creating a convincing flight model...

Creating the sensation of real flight is actually a killer app.. lets see if Asobo delivers..!

🙂

I think you're a little confused as that will be the the payware add-on developers role to design it around what they've been given. Like they've done now for several platforms over the decades. . And based on many of the big developer names jumping on the bandwagon, they don't seem overly concerned by it. 
 

4 hours ago, DavidP said:

Indeed it does so I hope it delivers.

Anyone who knows how to fly in the real world, especially instructors will discover this straight away, and I will certainly be investigating how accurately the default GA aircraft fly, including things like stalls, spins, adverse yaw, flaps, ground effect and so on.

With 1000 data points it will be interesting to see.

 

I posted a request for Beta Testers to do just this for the C172.   Result was zero, blamed on NDA restrictions.   Maybe true now but not after August 18th.  Thread is here:  

 

14 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

This is sarcasm right?  3rd party planes will be more watered down?  I think you mean they'll be more advanced and be able to take advantage of the new flight model.

my view is that miscrosoft and asobo will target the gamers on xbox; they do not need high sophisticated planes; it might be this sim will get mature and more advanced via ms and asobo updates (IF is justified by economic returns) time will tell.

 

Oh that I agree with.  3rd party comes in though for us simmers who care more about how the aircraft fly, and how complete the avionics are.

1 hour ago, Doug47 said:

I think you're a little confused as that will be the the payware add-on developers role to design it around what they've been given. Like they've done now for several platforms over the decades. . And based on many of the big developer names jumping on the bandwagon, they don't seem overly concerned by it. 
 

Lets see... I hope you are right, but I hear that what they have been given is actually the problem.. 

After August 18, I would expect to hear more on that topic, so lets hold until then.

Or "a year from now", maybe? 🙂

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by Bert Pieke

2 hours ago, spilok said:

Wonder how many simmers qualified for Academic?  I certainly don't.  My P3d's cost me $200 each time.

Stan

Probably not as many as who bought it 🤣 but then again it's not as if LM were hiring detectives to go after people to check their credentials, so if it's not a big deal to them, then it shouldn't bother anyone else. I actually did qualify for it, but I bought two copies of it so I could run it on desktop and a laptop for the training I occasionally used it for (hence qualifying for it), so it cost me 120 quid.

Nevertheless, it is still a fair point you make; for most users, it's not equivalent in price to the new MS sim if they were being legit.