42 minutes ago, robert young said:

Just as a car driving sim is right for everyone if it turns in the right way when you move the steering wheel.

But I guarantee you, if there were an F1 game that handled 100% like an F1 car, very few people would buy it, because an F1 race car does NOT behave the same as any other car.  For one thing, to get usable traction the tires have to already be hot, and the only way to maintain that heat is to go faster than most people are comfortable going in the first place.

Richard Hammond of Top Gear, who, is not a slouch behind the wheel took over 2 hours just to get an F1 race car around the track once.  He simply was unprepared for the acceleration, and even he didn't have the courage to take the car up to the speeds necessary to maintain traction.  It takes years to graduate into one of those cars.

ATP certifications and piloting advanced aircraft do not take a long time to master because they are easy.  I was given the opportunity to fly a 767 simulator back when I was in ROTC, and not one of the midshipmen were able to stay airborne for more than 30 sec.  

I agree that basic flight characteristics and avionics should work properly and A/P's shouldn't have a death wish.  Those are bugs in the software and can be addressed.

But what I was saying is this myth that xbox gamers are going to ruin MSFS 2020 is just that, a myth.  MSFS offers a wide variety of aircraft.  From the basic trainer 152, to highly advanced airliners.  And just as driving an F1 car is miles away from driving a Toyota Corolla, so is piloting an Airbus miles different from piloting a 152.

I never complained because I could get a good firing solution on a target in less than 30 minutes in a sub simulator.  Most real life tracking exercises took 2 to 4 hours and no less than 6 people doing separate jobs.    

And if there are some creative license taken to up the fun factor, then so be it, and that should be considered OK.  

Third Party developers have already promised the hard core sim crowd with study level aircraft.  That should free up Asobo to concentrate on more accessible and more forgiving ones.
 

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by wthomas33065

A few things:

This thread has devolved into the usual "let's bash Asobo" slugfest with little actual and factual information. 

Yes, auto pilot commanded turns need to be fixed. Is this a game breaking issue? I don't think so. Plus, look at the bright side of things: it's time to hone your manual flying skills. 

Yelling and screaming at Asobo, making baseless accusations, throwing temper tantrums isn't going to fix the autopilot (which, again, by and large, works quite well).

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by Ricardo41

47 minutes ago, GSalden said:

The majority of the MSFS user will be an X Box gamer who likes to fly VFR while looking down and enjoying all eyecandy.

Not the few who want every knob/switch, system to work as in the real ac. 
Just choose an ac and take off.

So more eyecandy attracts people more than having working bleedair switches ...

The AP is now good for all those general users..

And then FS2020 PRO ($150) will arrive to the market, with the totally different SDK made by 3PD consortium. And hopefully a new era of flight simulators will begin! 😃

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by OSM

19 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

A few things:

This thread has devolved into the usual "let's bash Asobo" slugfest with little actual and factual information. 

Yes, auto pilot commanded turns need to be fixed. Is this a game breaking issue? I don't think so. Plus, look at the bright side of things: it's time to hone your manual flying skills. 

Yelling and screaming at Asobo, making baseless accusations, throwing temper tantrums isn't going to fix the autopilot (which, again, by and large, works quite well).

No one is throwing a tantrum. And nobody is gratuitously indulging in a slugfest. We'll agree to differ. The current (and yet another) attempt to fix the autopilot has made basic a/p turning and certainly any ILS capture extremely sluggish and far worse than the a/p ever was from release date. It is the constant attempts to fiddle around and not get to the core issues that is frustrating. Making the a/p capture the last five degrees of a heading in as much as 30 seconds is not the solution to other problems. They are unrelated. It is like fixing the steering on a car by changing the wheels instead of looking at the steering mechanism.

It is a sim-breaking issue. And no one is yelling and screaming.

24 minutes ago, OSM said:

And then FS2020 PRO ($150) will arrive to the market, with the totally different SDK made by 3PD consortium. And a new era of flight simulators will begin! 😃

That would be nice 🥳

“As real as it gets..”  ( Fs2000 😁 )

1 minute ago, GSalden said:

That would be nice 🥳

“As real as it gets..”  ( Fs2000 😁 )

Humans succeed if they find a way how to work together!😃

A good message for Prosim users :

A MSFS preview version for the A320 has been released. As PS runs outside the app it might solve the stutter issues that GC ac currently have with their outside views.

However, I am using the PS 737 NG so I will have to wait a little more unfortunately ...

4 hours ago, Donstim said:

You must not fly the A320. It is now both violent and occasionally fatal on after takeoff turns and utterly unresponsive at other times. 

 It should be grounded. It is most definitely sim breaking. 

2 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

But what I was saying is this myth that xbox gamers are going to ruin MSFS 2020 is just that, a myth.  MSFS offers a wide variety of aircraft.  From the basic trainer 152, to highly advanced airliners.  And just as driving an F1 car is miles away from driving a Toyota Corolla, so is piloting an Airbus miles different from piloting a 152.
 

Whilst true, the average person often has unreasonable expectations.   

I think I mentioned elsewhere the arguments that used to go on back in the old IL2 days with people continually quoting that Spitfires were "easy to fly" .

 

Let us consider why, for example, 72 Squadron RAF might have thought their new Spitfires were "easy to fly" compared to the prewar Gloster Gladiators they replaced ...

Quote

Gladiator K6130
22/02/37 From Manufacturer
11/05/39 Transferred to HMS Argus to form 112 Sq.
18/07/40 Hit a hill obscured by a cloud at Qaret el Naga. Aircraft destroyed. F/O Gray-Worcester killed.

Gladiator K6133
22/02/37 From Manufacturer
23/07/37 Flew into ground out of cloud on ferry flight, Sealand – Church Fenton, Barmby, Yorkshire , and destroyed by fire, pilot killed.
Written off (63.10 hours)

Gladiator K6138
04/03/37 From Manufacturer
29/06/38 Collided with K6139 2 miles South of Selby in Yorkshire but returned safely to base.

Gladiator K6139
04/03/37 From Manufacturer
11/03/37 Engine cut and a/c force landed and overturned at Odiham.
Returned to Squadron after repair.
29/06/38 Collided with K6138 and crashed 2miles South of Selby, Yorkshire.
Pilot killed, Aircraft destroyed .
Written off (105.27 hrs)

Gladiator K6144
31/03/37 From Manufacturer
01/12/38 Abandoned in spin, Monk Freyston, Yorks.
Written off (122.45 hours)

Gladiator K7969
05/10/38 From 85 Sq.
10/03/39 Engine cut and hit hedge in forced landing, Ledsham, Yorkshire. Aircraft repaired.

Gladiator K7934
26/05/37 From Manufacturer.
07/02/38 Hit high tension cables on hill in mist and crashed 4 miles north of Brough.
Aircraft destroyed by fire and pilot killed.
Written off (107.20 hours)

Gladiator K6131
22/02/37 From Manufacturer
26/03/38 Ran out of fuel on approach to forced landing while lost and overturned and wrecked.

 

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Yes, auto pilot commanded turns need to be fixed. Is this a game breaking issue?

Thanks man, you keep this place worth visting. Who cares about autopilot in a flight sim? 

 

12 minutes ago, BigDee said:

Thanks man, you keep this place worth visting. Who cares about autopilot in a flight sim? 

 

I do, and I just completed an IFR fight with the TBM 930. I deliberately flew a "crazy rectangular approach" to see how the ap handles turns. No problem intercepting the localizer. You were saying?

 

18 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

I also think the autopilot has actually  been improved...  😉

Yes, it needs to be dialed in to be a bit more aggressive, but before it was too violent and occasionally even fatal..  I like it better now..

I agree.

@robert young have you thought about developing your own AP using WASM modules ? that way it would be independent from the simulator. I have heard it would also be technically possible to write WASM module to replace aerodynamics too but I guess it's a lot of work.

26 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I do, and I just completed an IFR fight with the TBM 930. I deliberately flew a "crazy rectangular approach" to see how the ap handles turns. No problem intercepting the localizer. You were saying?

 

Well you asked me for a video before to illustrate something. Maybe you could show a video of you doing crazy rectangular approaches then show the ILS being captured. It might be true for you but that is not what I am seeing at all. I am seeing the ILS being missed unless you are already lined up within 10-15 from miles away. The reason is because the ILS variables are directly related to, and relies on, the roll and heading mode to correct. It does have its own variables but they are dependent on the other two modes.

It is true that if you are way off the Localiser the aircraft will bank reasonably hard, just as it will when you START your heading change. But once it captures the ILS, or gets very near the correct angle,  the slightest deviation renders it incapable of any decent adjustment as once it is in the last 5 degrees of movement, further movements are tiny and very slow.

I just flew several ILSs at several airfields and the result is always the same. The a/p update is incapable of accurately following an ILS right down to the numbers unless you are lucky or you captured it from almost dead straight. I've been tweaking a/ps for many, many years and I can assure you this one is the worst I have ever seen.

Edited November 28, 20205 yr by robert young

7 minutes ago, cepact said:

@robert young have you thought about developing your own AP using WASM modules ? that way it would be independent from the simulator. I have heard it would also be technically possible to write WASM module to replace aerodynamics too but I guess it's a lot of work.

My knowledge of WASM is very poor. This sim's a/p is perfectly capable of performing well in every aircraft as it is. It just needs re-setting to its original legacy settings (it is based on FSX's rather well done a/p coding) and left alone. Nearly all the previous a/p issues with various aircraft are either because the default a/p params for that particular aircraft were wrongly set, or those aircraft had flight model issues which made the a/p look bad.

MSFS devs have tacked on some new variables which in my view simply do not work as well as simply importing the legacy FSX controls and leaving them alone.