Latest Asobo update has radically changed the a/p

[Chock 17,769]

17 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

Third Party developers have already promised the hard core sim crowd with study level aircraft.  That should free up Asobo to concentrate on more accessible and more forgiving ones.

If this were the case I doubt anyone would have a problem with that, but the issue is not one of being able to leave the fancy super-real aeroplanes to third party developers, the issue is whether the underlying sim mechanics, capabilities and functions the sim is capable of replicating or supporting, are there in enough detail and complexity to actually be able to facilitate a third party effort to create such a super-real aeroplane. And if they are, then when will they be finalised to the point where they can be locked down and documented in an SDK so that a developer can have confidence in committing to a long-term project which requires a considerable investment in time and money without worrying about the goalpost moving.

[wthomas33065 994]

4 minutes ago, Chock said:

If this were the case I doubt anyone would have a problem with that, but the issue is not one of being able to leave the fancy super-real aeroplanes to third party developers, the issue is whether the underlying sim mechanics, capabilities and functions the sim is capable of replicating or supporting, are there in enough detail and complexity to actually be able to facilitate a third party effort to create such a super-real aeroplane. And if they are, then when will they be finalised to the point where they can be locked down and documented in an SDK so that a developer can have confidence in committing to a long-term project which requires a considerable investment in time and money without worrying about the goalpost moving.

Agreed,  100%.  And I can't defend the "goalpost" moving that has occurred thus far.  (Like the livery issue).  If you develop according to the SDK, it should work, and be expected to continue to work.  

[wthomas33065 994]

42 minutes ago, bendead said:

That was 22 years ago, a lot changed since.

We did, first 3-4 patches with problems, it was not looking great, but we gave them time to improve.

Right now, after 3 month, we still have bugs, that could have been detected just by doing a 30min flight, and there is no improvement on that after all these patches.

The concepts of Software testing have not changed that much.  If anything, more and more is being tested using scripting vs. Black Box testing, which makes certain bugs harder to find.  What has changed in 22 years is the scope and breadth of the software, and most software development houses do not invest into QA like they should.  

Yes, we have bugs, that could have been detected by just doing a 30 min flight.  But you have to test it more than once.  And when you think you find a bug, you have to test it again to confirm it.  

The AP bugs, at least in the A320 don't have the same behavior from flight to flight, and even differ if going from C&D or starting on the runway ready to go.

It would indeed be nice if they stood up "beta" servers that replicated production servers and allowed people to download the "beta" branch ahead of release so that they can be more fully tested.  But even that requires those on the "beta" servers to be able and willing to write detailed and descriptive bug reports that can lead to easily replicated behavior.  Something that most of us don't know how to do properly.

 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

They knew they were updating the AP code, no excuse in my book, should have been tested by 5 people minimum and at least 3 flights each, that is 15 flights. Reason is simple, consequences of breaking something like this = backlash, which is what we are seeing now. 

 

 

[Noel 4,499]

I think this entire hand-wringing discussion is just that.  Give it some time.  I can't see any possible support for the idea MS/A went to all the trouble the did already to address so many of the things they have already done so well, and yet are going to take something like the AP function that very likely just needs fine-tuning and leave it where it is now.  My sense is MS/A has a priorities agenda not perfectly aligned w/ what the niche market Avsim represents demands to be happy.  This is a dual platform project, their next big target is getting this ready enough for Xbox holiday release, then I predict they will go back to bring on a more techically authentic sim some time down the road.  In my mind, this fits well with how much they have already put into this project.  PMDG forecast over a year I and that came from more exposure MS/A's timeline of priorities I think the post suggested.  Give it some time.   If you can't see this magnificent forest for the various stunted trees here and there you can always go back to the tried and true uber expensive complex hodgepodge that is P3D and return when the magnificence has more fully bloomed.  

[RaptyrOne 1,408]

6 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

And your issues with the autopilot on your toy airplane game doesn't justify putting people at risk as infection levels continue to climb worldwide.  Sorry about your "inconvenience".  (smh)

LOL.... So what you are saying is that by putting out a broken update, Asobo will be safe from a virus but by putting out a good update, calamity will strike? Have you any idea how pathetic your argument is? 

No one forced Asobo to release this half-baked update. They chose to do it.

 

6 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

on your toy airplane game 

That’s just childish, wthomas. That’s so ironic on two levels, can you see that?

[Virtual-Chris 682]

8 hours ago, wthomas33065 said:

I am also aware that QA'ing entertainment software is NOT something that can be easily done at home.  

Yeah, just get the customers to do it. <smh>

[marsman2020 1,310]

Well, spent most of my afternoon on this, now to attach it to a ZenDesk ticket so Asobo can ignore it:

 

 

[robert young 2,897]

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

Well, spent most of my afternoon on this, now to attach it to a ZenDesk ticket so Asobo can ignore it:

 

Excellent demonstration of this now extremely obvious design fault in the latest update. Note how the smaller the amount of turn (45 degrees) the more disproportionately the lag in heading change is evident. That's because in a 180 degree turn the Asobo heading mode starts at a reasonably normal rate turn for the first 130 degrees, but it is the last 50 degrees that slows down to a crawl. When commanding a 45 degree turn, almost immediately the bank quickly diminishes because it is within the 50 degrees that the autopilot slows down the roll rate. Those figures are absolutely shocking!

Very clearly the person who dictated this unbelievably incompetent change only had in mind assuaging the complaints about a/p instabilities elsewhere that are completely irrelevant to the heading rate itself. In fact the heading mode was the LEAST of the a/p problems in MSFS. It is also clear that whoever ordered this change didn't stop to think about the consequences for a whole raft of other autopilot functions: Nav Mode, ILS capture, Vectored ATC commands, tight turns in approach and arrival procedures and other functions. But worse still, many users have surely notified Asobo of this total gaffe. Fair enough if they admit it is wrong and correct it, but it seems they are not concerned about it.

This video shows just how disastrous this update is. I am still baffled as to why this has not been immediately reversed or hot fixed. It is so blindingly flawed that it must be sheer stubbornness that prevents it being immediately fixed. For those who say "I don't mind it, and it doesn't bother me", I suggest you do a few approaches or nav procedures and see if you can get anywhere near tracking the commanded headings.

Until or unless this is fixed, this sim is now a hand flying exercise and all your glass gauges and navaids are virtually useless unless you want to spend all day climbing or descending straight and level.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by robert young

[sd_flyer 6,041]

This is AP "tweak" should have never had happened. Asobo need to get grip and hire the "right stuff". MSFS community have been patient enough with all that circus that is going on. We have given Microsoft/Asobo our money and Asobo our trust. Time to get serious!  Without 3rd party add ons and mods there is no future for MSFS. Can't fix it yourself let others do.

[Virtual-Chris 682]

Here’s the latest from the FBW team on the A320 AP issue...

[MikeyOnTheFlightDeck 191]

1 hour ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Here’s the latest from the FBW team on the A320 AP issue...

It's really something when you have people within the community prepared to help out in this way to meet the shortfalls of the paid professional.  It does make you wonder whether commercial bureaucracy gets in the way sometimes.  Hats off to FBW, a very commendable and forward-thinking approach. 

[David Roch 1,982]

Time to fire up my good old P3D, AS and FS Labs A320.
I am done with this sim until MS/A wake up from their lethargy and seriously consider QA as an urgent priority.

[robert young 2,897]

11 minutes ago, David Roch said:

Time to fire up my good old P3D, AS and FS Labs A320.
I am done with this sim until MS/A wake up from their lethargy and seriously consider QA as an urgent priority.

Ditto David. I'm putting MSFS to sleep until they can fix the issues. Fired up P3d V4 this morning and loaded the ifly737 with hi res textures. Had a flawless, smooth flight at 120 fps and no stutters, and the a/p worked perfectly. OK the scenery was not so nice, but from pushback to arrival everything worked as it should.

[flightsim1818 79]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:06 AM, robert young said:

This is the last straw for me.

I uninstalled FS2020 1.5 months ago and went back to X-plane 11. Yesterday I purchased the ToLiss A321 with the BSS soundpack. Oh.....my....GOD!! That combination is pure gold. All I need is some new scenery.

Haven't been here for a while. Came back today just to check how the MS updates are going. As I suspected, clearly not in the right direction so I am really glad I pulled the trigger on the ToLiss which will keep me in the air (both mentally and simwise) until Asobo or someone else has fixed FS.