Just now, marsman2020 said:

Sure....I can set them to public....within the next day or so I will make an edited together version that tells the story better.

Thanks, asobo need to see it

3 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

At least it sounds like the GA aircraft are following a course. The A320 AP refuses to do anything except a spiral of death. 

I got it to follow by doing a direct to the first waypoint, then it follows the rest of the flight plan PITA

Looks like Asobo really is stumped trying to fix the A/P. It is a priority with them, little doubt. But they just can't get her done.

This AP issue not a bug, this was a "CFIT" showing that Asobo aeronautical knowledge below any acceptable "minimum"! Coding skills will not help Asobo to improve Flight Simulator.

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by OSM

It seems to be more of the same... overdoing things without concern for realism. We said there was no lightning... now there is lightning almost everywhere. We said that aircraft flew as though on rails... now they are frenetically unstable. The AP is only one more in a long series of overcompensations without reality being a consideration.

Its time Asobo turned to PROVEN EXPERTS in flight simulation. Talk to Robert Young, Manfred Jahn, Nigel Richards, Alex Metzger, Bernt Stolle, Jan Visser et al. They KNOW how to make ones and zeros fly. Without that, we are slapping lipstick on a pig.

C

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by cavaricooper

53 minutes ago, cavaricooper said:

It seems to be more of the same... overdoing things without concern for realism. We said there was no lightning... now there is lightning almost everywhere. We said that aircraft flew as though on rails... now they are frenetically unstable. The AP is only one more in a long series of overcompensations without reality being a consideration.

Its time Asobo turned to PROVEN EXPERTS in flight simulation. Talk to Robert Young, Manfred Jahn, Nigel Richards, Alex Metzger, Bernt Stolle, Jan Visser et al. They KNOW how to make ones and zeros fly. Without that, we are slapping lipstick on a pig.

C

At least they are taking community input into consideration and hopefully they will reverse these over compensations and apply more cautious changes going forward, seems to be a learning process for them and eventually they will get there,I think they really need to fast track a beta team to check through the update before it's released,all that talent in the community could really assist asobo and avoid these type of unnecessary issues

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by Jetman67

I was quite cautious in my original post just in case I was deluged with Asobo-defending replies and accusations that "I've got a grudge" which is what happened when I first started posting about the flight models even before release (a publicity video can reveal an awful lot about how sim aircraft fly). This potentially wonderful sim is systematically being held back by multiple updates almost all of which are backward steps regarding flight behaviour.

First we had the baked-in artificial movements as a tacked on elastoplast of a solution for what Asobo wrongly assumed was the cliched "flying on rails" myth. Then we had (and still have) grossly exaggerated reactions to the slightest wind and gusts, hugely exaggerated cross wind ground effects and utterly ludicrous over reaction to even a 3 knot gust. Then we have squirrely ground steering that is so unrealistic as to be something from a cartoon. Next we have absurdly low inertia values that make most aircraft look like they are radio controlled machines with a hundredth of the mass of a real aircraft.

Next we have the other extreme with the larger airliners doing the opposite - taking ages to roll, yaw and pitch down or up, together with a "fly by wire" code that is so far removed from reality it would be hard to be worse.

Next we have default aircraft that are barely controllable in pitch - bucking up and down like demented yo-yos and incapable of any finesse.

This all points to one thing and it is time Asobo owned up: They do not possess the skills, knowledge or ability to make an aircraft fly decently. Each update, as Cavaricooper points out, and as marsman2020 has demonstrated with his videos, makes an already poor flying experience even worse.

Someone, somewhere at Asobo, is ordering these changes seemingly without any reference to a competent person or persons who would instantly tell them that what they are doing is plain wrong. You don't even need that much knowledge of aerodynamics to see that it is plain wrong. There are others interested in this subject whose technical knowledge is far greater than mine (Alex and Bernt are two in mind) but one thing we all agree on is that Asobo needs to adopt a position of less misplaced self-confidence in flight modelling.

They need to properly consult others who, if only they did, would say right from the outset that they are going in the wrong direction. Forget the thousand "lift points" (what happened to that PR meme?) and the flying on rails obsession. It is NOT HARD to create a decently flying aircraft. The latest update, and the video showing the woefully inept path of an aircraft that is attempting to turn a holding pattern under autopilot (which is something so basic) exposes once and for all the fact that whoever is in charge of flight modelling desperately needs help from others who are competent in the subject.

This is the last straw for me. No-one should feel entitled just because they are creating payware, freeware or mods. But as Asobo's marketing strategy is to encourage a healthy third party market place in order to sell more base simulator copies, they might like to show a little more respect for the hundreds of developers outside Asobo who every month are having to not just tweak or make minor changes, but are having to go back and start from scratch because of yet another update that has not improved but degraded the current quality of flight modelling and other qualities of this sim.

The liveries fiasco was one example. Many addon devs spent countless hours re-vamping their mods to fit with the disappearing livery update, only to see a month later that all that work was wasted when Asobo reversed the previous update.

This keeps happening. Eventually people are going to get fed up having to re-write reams of code just for the sake of making a product or mod work again. It would matter less if the updates requiring all this actually signalled an improvement, but in many cases, something already bad is made even worse.

Sorry - had to get this off my chest!

Edited November 27, 20205 yr by robert young

8 minutes ago, robert young said:

Sorry - had to get this off my chest!

There is clearly a bad case of NIH Syndrome in that group.....

Edited November 27, 20205 yr by fppilot

Certainly mistakes are being made and it's frustrating but it's clear they will get fixed and asobo will learn valuable lessons, in the mean time we just need to keep feeding back the faults until such time as it's rectified, keep our cool and enjoy what we have, failing that go back to an older Sim or go and hire a real plane

5 minutes ago, Jetman67 said:

or go and hire a real plane

No better time to learn to fly, airports are empty and planes are as cheap to buy as they will ever get.

I sent asobo an email and suggested a select group of beta testers, that's the only way things will move forward given what we have seen this far, some of the clever folk on this forum could provide valuable feedback to asobo and these issues would never see the light of day, it's that simple

6 hours ago, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

Yet again 2 steps forward and 1.5 back sideways

Two forward, three back for this update IMHO. All the lovely POIs and terrain detail are wasted if your aircraft can't fly (every Asobo aircraft I use on a regular basis is currently FUBAR) and the entire flying experience has become a stutterfest (something drove my sim across a critical line with this update and now i can seldom maintain 30fps in any lower altitude situation). I've tried to stay optimistic, but things are simply moving in the wrong direction. Time for an extended break.

Among other important attributes:

Flight dynamics
Weather
Avionics

They are not reaching out to subject matter experts and proven developers, and not putting SDK material out there in a timely manner.  And as Robert correctly identified they do not seem to have an adequate level of core aviation understandings.  They need to reach out....  but are failing to do so.  In the corporate world we call that "not invented here syndrome".  It has killed many projects and even killed corporations. 

Edited November 27, 20205 yr by fppilot

40 minutes ago, fppilot said:

There is clearly a bad case of NIH Syndrome in that group.....

That's it precisely. It takes a certain arrogance to suffer from NIH syndrome. Or hiding your head in the sand. 

Meanwhile I've trawled through every folder to see where this autopilot update resides and I can't find it, so either I have missed it or it resides in a hidden file or maybe is within the executable. I would like to offer a virtual prize to anyone who can find the offending autopilot change so it can be reversed forthwith!

Edited November 27, 20205 yr by robert young

Probably a circle of trust issue, people making a lot of money working in big corporations often have trust issues with contracting stuff out, some of it is probably founded, but in this case I agree with you guys 100% that they need to reach out more.

Most people in here are good folk just trying to improve the product, and this is incredibly frustrating. I wanted to give a shot at maybe modeling a plane, and getting someone else to do the physics (not my thing), but I am just doing airports because I am frightened to death how deep such a rabbit hole might end up being.

Also, where are those particle physics animations they keep speaking of, and why does 80% of the SDK documentation still say "TO DO", did they fire the guy that writes the documentation or are they just that slow, or at this point I even question if it is intentional.