I see your whisky, Charlie and I raise a Lamb's navy Rum instead 🍻 Thank you. 

(All out of likes and upvotes for now..I appear to have beaten the forum).

I don't want this turning into a gunfight.. then I'd have to try and learn the Grammaton Cleric Gun Kata. I give the bullets accuracy, their cartridge grain load gives them the speed..  

39 minutes ago, Chock said:

Any half-decent musician will tell you this; if you practice at breakneck speed, you start adding inaccuracy to the mix, whereas if you practice slowly and accurately, the muscle memory retains the accurate path of movement, and you can then speed this up.

As an organist I can attest to what you wrote above. Especially when sight-reading a new score I learn the piece one hand at a time, and one foot at a time --  at no faster than quarter speed. Most of Bach's works are particularly difficult to master and may take me many weeks to perform well.

Mark, I can empathize with your predicament. I had a blown disk about 20 years ago and had surgery to relieve the pressure on my disks between L3 and L5. If I get careless I can still cause enough trauma to have debilitating pain for several days.

Move slowly and carefully and allow natural healing to take place.

Thank you, Bill.

EDIT - I apologise for missing the first few posts after my original. Only read them now after going back through the thread. Thanks for the kind words and advice, all.

Edited December 20, 20205 yr by HighBypass

Sorry to hear about the back!  One must remember that man was never designed to walk upright!

LOL James! I can be a bit unevolved sometimes 

13 hours ago, Chock said:

  

You clearly know nothing about how neural pathways can be enhanced by repeated cycles. Practicing at high speed has its uses too, but first you need to practice slowly to build up accurate neuro-transmitters. If you forgo this stage and just go for speed, all this achieves is to allow you to make mistakes at a higher speed. And not just in martial arts either...

 

 

"You clearly know nothing about how neural pathways can be enhanced by repeated cycles"

 

Correct. REPEATED CYCLES! Not deliberately training super slow. 

 You don't "build up neurotransmitters" by  training slowly. You enhance NEUROLOGICAL PATHWAYS by training slowly! You also enhance neurological pathways by training at moderate speed. You also enhance neurological pathways by training at high speed. But not so high that form suffers! 

There's no such thing as "accurate neurotransmitters" no idea what you mean by that 🙂 Neurotransmitters are chemical messengers that transmit signals across the synapse. However... you can increase the QUANTITY of neurotransmitters with training. In fact its the INTENSITY of exercise that is known to increase quantities of Norepinephrine. And intensity is defined as doing the same amount of work in LESS TIME. Speed! 

 

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Any half-decent musician will tell you this; if you practice at breakneck speed, you start adding inaccuracy to the mix, whereas if you practice slowly and accurately, the muscle memory retains the accurate path of movement, and you can then speed this up.

 

Correct, moderate or slow speed to increase neurological efficiency, neuromuscular coordination and thus form! But "not practicing at breakneck speed" does not equate to the super slow movements of Tai Chi. And when you DO want optimal speed you MUST practice for speed. Again... the SAID principle cant be denied, its scientific fact. Specific Adaption to Imposed Demands. If you want optimal speed you must train for speed. Slow movements can indeed increase neurological efficiency, but optimal speed requires speed training! And just neurological efficiency on its won't generate optimal speed. Neurological efficiency develops motor neuron pathways that enhance an athletes brain body coordination during functional movements. Clearly some additional speed may be manifest as the agonist and antagonist muscles learn to contract efficiently for a given movement, but no, the emphasis for optimal speed is speed training, once that neurological efficiency and proper form is attained. 

 

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And if you think Tai Chi is of no use, then you quite clearly know absolutely bugger all about it, not least in noting that I never said we don't also practice it at speed - what do you think the contact fighting part of it is all about? I merely advised someone on what that slow practice stuff was all about and how it is important in the formation of muscle memory.

 

Why the rudeness? If you do train for speed in accordance with the SAID principle then why didn't you simply reply...

"Actually Martin you are correct re the SAID principle and we do indeed train for speed also. In fact super slow training is purely for coordination and balance"

All I said was that for optimal speed you need to train for speed. No need for rudeness or insulting my knowledge and a lengthy diatribe. 😞 

 

 

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And if you actually do read Bruce Lee's recommendations on training and observe what he did, you will know that he was very big on alternating speed in his training, not just going at full tilt, and that was so he would be accurate.

 

Actually, I ACTUALLY have read Lee's work The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is still on my shelf. Although I haven't practiced martial arts for many years due to my back injury. And I don't believe I ever said that Lee ONLY trained fast. Although it is true that the majority of his training emphasised the development of fast twitch type 2a muscle fibres. Even Bruce's weight training didn't  emphasize muscular hypertrophy, in fact he did a type of training where each set was completed a rapidly as possible, he hoped to enhance his speed. His theory was that the very fast repetitions would result in the development of fast twitch fibres. This in fact is contrary to what we know now, but there you go. 

 

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Try reading up on all this instead of embarrassing yourself with your obvious lack of knowledge on the subject.

 

Rudeness again Chock. I'm a bit disappointed in your response to be honest. Not necessary. And all I said was that the SAID principle was vital for speed. One sentence would have corrected me as you say you do also practice fast movements for speed.

As for "reading up". I have practiced martial arts from the age of 24, and studied muscular hypertrophy extensively for almost as long. I'm now 62. 

As for Tai Chi, sorry but I still think its a rubbish martial art. Just my opinion.

And as Bertrand Russel said...

 

“Love is wise; hatred is foolish. In this world, which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other, we have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way. But if we are to live together, and not die together, we must learn a kind of charity and a kind of tolerance, which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”

Edited December 20, 20205 yr by martin-w

11 hours ago, jmdriskell said:

Sorry to hear about the back!  One must remember that man was never designed to walk upright!

 

We are designed to walk upright. Trouble is we are not fully evolved to walk upright yet. 

11 minutes ago, martin-w said:

We are designed to walk upright.

Try telling that to the people in New Mills. 🤣

I had to google New Mills... It seems innocuous enough unless I'm missing something? (Missing link? )  Are you implying that the town's population is given to dragging their knuckles on the floor? If so, then I can indeed relate to the theory and I suspect that there are many other places on this Septic Isle where similar traits can be observed 

Regarding SAID principle: Currently I would prefer the other, medical SAID principle of  Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug 

15 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

I had to google New Mills...

It's a bit notorious (or at least used to be) for a bit of in-breeding having gone on there in the past.

I actually looked into that to see if there was any truth to it or whether it was just one of those apocryphal 'being a bit mean things' you sometimes get about people from certain areas, and there apparently is some truth to it.

How I learned about that, was years ago when my mum was working for the DSS (or DHSS as it was back then), occasionally she would go to the offices there to cover for when people were ill at the office there or whatever, and she told me, in relation to that reputation, that she was surprised to note that when looking through claims and such from around that area, there did seem to be quite a lot of 'people having kids with their sister or close cousin' occurrences when she was looking into dependencies to see whether child benefit claims were valid. Certainly more so than anywhere else she had worked, according to her.

So apparently there at least was some truth to that rumour/joke, which does still persist with people these days.

Edited December 20, 20205 yr by Chock

 

Thanks for sharing Mark

Edited December 20, 20205 yr by jcomm

@jcomm not a problem. 🍻 Thank you for reading it.

1 hour ago, HighBypass said:

@jcomm not a problem. 🍻 Thank you for reading it.

I had a friend experiencing the same last year.

Took him 6 months to recover, and eventually escape spine surgery... But he has to be very careful with any efforts he makes, specially rising objects...

 

I've never tried Tai Chi, but I am a master in the more modern martial art of Click Pow.