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Bobsk8

KEYW airport and Coutal

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I was wondering if you get the KEYW by FSDT  that is in the FS Market, do you have to get involved with Coutal? I would hate to have that on my sim again. 


 

Bob Cardone        MSFS 2020       FlyVirtual.net   Aivlasoft EFB2    ATC  by PF3 CLX Set Gaming PC

 

 

 

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I bought the FSDT airports via their website and used the corresponding installers. As far as I see, the MSFS airports don't use Couatl.

Kind regards, Michael

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MSFS, P3D Professional 5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

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It's only for verifying your license and updating.

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Couatl is not used by any FSDT scenery for MSFS 2020, regardless if you buy it on the MS Marketplace or anywhere else, including the Fsdt site,p.

Which explains why they have quite a bit less features compared to the P3d versions, at KORD, for example:

- the P3D version has working Safegates, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS doesn’t

- the P3D version has working Active panels on gates the real airport has, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t

- the P3D version has custom ground vehicles using custom paths, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default ground traffic

- the P3D version has a custom collision system that allows very precise optimizations and features, like turning off the active things or the terminal interiors exactly where we wanted, for better fps, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default LODs which are just a radius, so the optimization is not as good as it could be.

- the P3D version has walking passengers inside the terminals, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t have any.

- the P3D version has custom sounds linked to areas and with positional audio so, for example you could hear restourant ambient sounds if you walk close to the McDonalds at Terminal C, of course thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t have any sounds

- the P3D version has a complete GSX profile with custom pushback routes at every gate and precise parking stop positions based on airplane types, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default ground services with generic ground services and parking.

- the P3D version has jetways with numbers and power units that actually charge the airplane, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version has default jetways that don’t do anything different than default jetways,

- the P3D version integrates with GSX so deeply, that the gate active panels will show the ground service in progress, replacing the default text scrollbars, and of course Couatl does that, the MSFS version don’t have any of this.

These are some examples of how much a scenery could be enhanced thanks to Couatl, which is just a Phython interpreter that use standard Simconnect calls to connnect to the sim, which are the only kind of connections it could use, since it’s NOT running inside the simulator, it’s an external .EXE, which means, by definition, it CANNOT affect the simulator in any way, something you can’t say for sure for so many other modules that instead run inside the simulator, as .DLL modules.

A common mistake is assuming the Couatl has problems, because when one of its scripts has an error Couatl reports it, so you see a Couatl error report, and mistakenly assume Couatl is at fault.

When in fact, what really happened, is that one of its scripts had a problem, sometimes because of a real bug (which is always fixed, when properly reported), but most of the times is caused by bad data coming in, usually 3rd party airports with bugs in their AFCAD that the already big code GSX has to defend from didn’t catch so, these exceptions result in errors in the Phython interpreter, that Couatl, like any other intepreter, will correctly log, because that’s what language intepreters are supposed to do when something unexpected happens.

But such errors are be completely harmless to the sim, which will continue to run entirely unaffected by it, and Couatl can be restarted without any issues when they happen.

If Couatl was like one of the other .dll modules you surely must have installed, such error might have crashed the sim, and even if it didn’t, since it’s not possible to restart a .dll module, you would have to restart the whole simulator, ruining your session anyway, even if the problem wasn’t serious enough to make the sim crash.

We already have Couatl running in MSFS for months, because is what will allow us to get back all the missing features that could’t be made in any other way which made the P3D versions of our sceneries so much fully featured (their are cheaper in MSFS for a reason), and will allow us to offer the real, complete GSX, not a reduced version, because the GSX code, thanks to Couatl, won’t even know if it’s running in FSX, P3D or MSFS, which is also what will allow us to continue to update GSX with new features that could make it back to P3D too, since it’s the same code that runs in the same way or, more precisely, it’s all the support done by Couatl that allows all the various Couatl scripts to run almost entirely unaware of the simulator used.

Yes, Couatl was also used to verify licenses, but that gave you back a Trial version, which we don’t have in MSFS.

This is what Couatl REALLY is, the thing we might change with the MSFS version, is that it might not be “mandatory” for airports, you might just decide to install it to get the extra features, but you could also just use the bare airport without it, since in MSFS we are using a different way of enforcing licensing, that is preventing users without a real license to download updates, and it seemed to work fine. And, many of the airport extra features will come from GSX anyway, which is surely not possible without a software module.

The FSDT Addon Manager, instead, will never come back in MSFS, because it’s a .dll module (that was our “dangerous” software, not Couatl), which are not possible and not planned in MSFS, so it has been replaced by a very minimal new Wasm module that provides only with an interface to drive custom animations.

 

Edited by virtuali
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11 minutes ago, virtuali said:

This is what Couatl REALLY is, the thing we might change with the MSFS version, is that it might not be “mandatory” for airports, you might just decide to install it to get the extra features, but you could also just use the bare airport without it, since in MSFS we are using a different way of enforcing licensing, that is preventing users without a real license to download updates, and it seemed to work fine. And, many of the airport extra features will come from GSX anyway, which is surely not possible without a software module.

That would be an excellent solution, in my mind. I probably would at least try it, I never had issues with Couatl under Prepar3d. However, what was dangerous, I think, was indeed the Addon Manager which led many to "optimize" their system with a few clícks without a clear understanding what they are doing or even by chance.

And thanks for the good explanation, much acknowledged.

Kind regards, Michael


MSFS, P3D Professional 5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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1 hour ago, virtuali said:

Couatl is not used by any FSDT scenery for MSFS 2020, regardless if you buy it on the MS Marketplace or anywhere else, including the Fsdt site,p.

Which explains why they have quite a bit less features compared to the P3d versions, at KORD, for example:

- the P3D version has working Safegates, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS doesn’t

- the P3D version has working Active panels on gates the real airport has, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t

- the P3D version has custom ground vehicles using custom paths, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default ground traffic

- the P3D version has a custom collision system that allows very precise optimizations and features, like turning off the active things or the terminal interiors exactly where we wanted, for better fps, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default LODs which are just a radius, so the optimization is not as good as it could be.

- the P3D version has walking passengers inside the terminals, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t have any.

- the P3D version has custom sounds linked to areas and with positional audio so, for example you could hear restourant ambient sounds if you walk close to the McDonalds at Terminal C, of course thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version doesn’t have any sounds

- the P3D version has a complete GSX profile with custom pushback routes at every gate and precise parking stop positions based on airplane types, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version use default ground services with generic ground services and parking.

- the P3D version has jetways with numbers and power units that actually charge the airplane, thanks to Couatl, the MSFS version has default jetways that don’t do anything different than default jetways,

- the P3D version integrates with GSX so deeply, that the gate active panels will show the ground service in progress, replacing the default text scrollbars, and of course Couatl does that, the MSFS version don’t have any of this.

These are some examples of how much a scenery could be enhanced thanks to Couatl, which is just a Phython interpreter that use standard Simconnect calls to connnect to the sim, which are the only kind of connections it could use, since it’s NOT running inside the simulator, it’s an external .EXE, which means, by definition, it CANNOT affect the simulator in any way, something you can’t say for sure for so many other modules that instead run inside the simulator, as .DLL modules.

A common mistake is assuming the Couatl has problems, because when one of its scripts has an error Couatl reports it, so you see a Couatl error report, and mistakenly assume Couatl is at fault.

When in fact, what really happened, is that one of its scripts had a problem, sometimes because of a real bug (which is always fixed, when properly reported), but most of the times is caused by bad data coming in, usually 3rd party airports with bugs in their AFCAD that the already big code GSX has to defend from didn’t catch so, these exceptions result in errors in the Phython interpreter, that Couatl, like any other intepreter, will correctly log, because that’s what language intepreters are supposed to do when something unexpected happens.

But such errors are be completely harmless to the sim, which will continue to run entirely unaffected by it, and Couatl can be restarted without any issues when they happen.

If Couatl was like one of the other .dll modules you surely must have installed, such error might have crashed the sim, and even if it didn’t, since it’s not possible to restart a .dll module, you would have to restart the whole simulator, ruining your session anyway, even if the problem wasn’t serious enough to make the sim crash.

We already have Couatl running in MSFS for months, because is what will allow us to get back all the missing features that could’t be made in any other way which made the P3D versions of our sceneries so much fully featured (their are cheaper in MSFS for a reason), and will allow us to offer the real, complete GSX, not a reduced version, because the GSX code, thanks to Couatl, won’t even know if it’s running in FSX, P3D or MSFS, which is also what will allow us to continue to update GSX with new features that could make it back to P3D too, since it’s the same code that runs in the same way or, more precisely, it’s all the support done by Couatl that allows all the various Couatl scripts to run almost entirely unaware of the simulator used.

Yes, Couatl was also used to verify licenses, but that gave you back a Trial version, which we don’t have in MSFS.

This is what Couatl REALLY is, the thing we might change with the MSFS version, is that it might not be “mandatory” for airports, you might just decide to install it to get the extra features, but you could also just use the bare airport without it, since in MSFS we are using a different way of enforcing licensing, that is preventing users without a real license to download updates, and it seemed to work fine. And, many of the airport extra features will come from GSX anyway, which is surely not possible without a software module.

The FSDT Addon Manager, instead, will never come back in MSFS, because it’s a .dll module (that was our “dangerous” software, not Couatl), which are not possible and not planned in MSFS, so it has been replaced by a very minimal new Wasm module that provides only with an interface to drive custom animations.

 

I think I and many others think coautl is the work of the devil. That one program caused me to break a few keyboards 

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FWIW I have KEYW and it's been flawless, there were a couple of days of blue lights after the last update from Asobo but FSDT fixed it quickly


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13 minutes ago, MediaHypeTrain said:

FWIW I have KEYW and it's been flawless, there were a couple of days of blue lights after the last update from Asobo but FSDT fixed it quickly

Hmm..bought mine from Simmarket but have not received notice of an update?

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I thought Umberto said this was an MSFS bug that needed to be addressed at the simulator level. Has this changed? If so, how do we get the update?


Dan Scott

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4 hours ago, devgrp said:

I think I and many others think coautl is the work of the devil. That one program caused me to break a few keyboards 

The only thing evil here was your quoting.

And, it would be best if you won't speak for others ( "many others" ? sure... ). I think to have provided all the technical facts about it, but I wouldn't expect everybody to get it.

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2 hours ago, Cognita said:

I thought Umberto said this was an MSFS bug that needed to be addressed at the simulator level. Has this changed? If so, how do we get the update?

That's not exactly what I said.

I said there is ANOTHER simulator bug, which prevents *all* if our sceneries to be fixed as easily as we could with KEYW ( we fixed CYVR too, BTW ), because to fix the taxiway lights bug, it's enough to recompile the scenery with the latest SDK but, the issue is not all sceneries can be recompiled, because if they contain more than 2 Projected Mesh objects ( custom ground textures and markings ), this *other* bug will prevent all of them to show. Yes, there might be other workarounds, but they are a bit clumsy, take a bit more memory and since the bug is being looked at already, it would be best to wait for the proper fix, rather than rush to make fixes that might have to be undone once the fix is out.

Also, I'd say making a workaround as soon as a new bug comes out, is sending the wrong signal to Asobo: we should instead demand the simulator would perform to its specs and provide help to identify the problem, which is exactly what we are doing, through the proper channels.

The real problem here, is this taxiway light incident has proven there's no time to waste to set up a Beta system to test for these issues in advance, before releasing an update.

In any case, the fixed KEYW and CYVR can be found by just running the FSDT Live Update ( a.k.a. as Couatl_updater.exe ), if you bought from our site or on Simmarket.

If you bought it on the MS Marketplace, it should be available tomorrow so, in this case, they have been surprisingly quick to approve it.

Edited by virtuali
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8 hours ago, virtuali said:

....We already have Couatl running in MSFS for months, because is what will allow us to get back all the missing features that could’t be made in any other way which made the P3D versions of our sceneries so much fully featured (they are cheaper in MSFS for a reason)....

 

I think a lot of people are under the impression that airports are cheaper in MSFS because "that is the new normal" (aka. there is a larger potential userbase). It will be interesting to see the reaction if prices for future (presumably fully featured) products go back to P3D levels :smile:

Edited by Christopher Low
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Christopher Low

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2 hours ago, virtuali said:

That's not exactly what I said.

All I wanna know is when are we getting the Hawaiian airports?:ph34r:

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3 hours ago, virtuali said:

The only thing evil here was your quoting.

And, it would be best if you won't speak for others ( "many others" ? sure... ). I think to have provided all the technical facts about it, but I wouldn't expect everybody to get it.

You can provide all the facts you want, but I stopped buying your products because of the pain coualt caused me. Can't tell you how many times I've set up a flight ready to go on vatsim and as I'm getting ready to taxi, coualt pops up with an error message and crashes the sim. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went through that 

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