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MrFuzzy

For those who have frequent CTDs

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I know that the sim is not 100% rock stable (see the G1000/G3000 issues), but I believe that many random CTDs are originated because of hardware instability, caused by overclock or aggressive XMP profiles.

MSFS is very demanding and can highlight any tiny instability that does not manifest with other software / games.

I used to have sporadic CTDs, ONLY in MSFS, with error 0xc0000005 in the event log and I found out, in 5 minutes with OCCT, that the XMP profile of my RAM was not fully stable. I overvolted the RAM from 1.35 V to 1.40 V and the problem was solved.

I recommend this tool to investigate separately CPU, GPU, RAM and even PSU (which is sometimes cause of instability when it's underpowered or old).

It's small, stand alone, straightforward and easy to use. If your subsystem (CPU, RAM, GPU...) can stand 1 h of test you can be reasonably sure that the subsystem is stable and step to another subsystem. 

If your system is fully stable, then the CTDs are caused by MSFS.

https://www.ocbase.com/

OCCT-Screenshot-20210419-103747.png

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i9 10850K / 64 GB 2933 MHz CL14 / RTX 3090 / HP Reverb G2

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Posted (edited)

I concur. 

I was overclocking my processor and video card to get better performance but then I started getting frequent CTD's. 

When I stopped overclocking, the CTD's stopped and the sim became way more stable.

 

Edited by AirlinePilot83
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I used to have frequent CTD with no warnings, changed system memory from XMP to AUTO and every thing seems to be stable for many months now.

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Ali A.

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20 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

 

If your system is fully stable, then the CTDs are caused by MSFS.

 

 

or external software, mods and freeware. That doesn’t say that MFS has not its own flaws of course, it certainly has, but any CTD diagnosis should be done with MFS clean of addons on a non O/Ced computer. Then we can talk. Anything else is rant. 

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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I use OCCT since Windows 7 and warmly recommend this tool too, especially for OC testing.

In my case, the CTDs unfortunately occur when no hardware problem appears during the tests and after removing all overclocking. And yes... with an empty Community folder ;-).
 
But let's talk seriously.
We are in 2021, in an era where digital games occupy a preponderant place, where competition is fierce and in which Microsoft wants to be the leader with its flight simulator franchise.
In this context, do you think it's normal to have to do without XMP?
Having to use your PC only at its minimum power?
Having to clamp down on your computer for the game to work?
It's completely absurd, right?
 
I use my PC primarily for two reasons. FS and the editing of drone videos in 4K, which requires a lot of resources. Like many of us I have invested huge sums of money to have the best machine that allows me these two activities. The solution I found is to have to use 2 different BIOS profiles, which is completely archaic and annoying.
 
 
 
 
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David Roch

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, David Roch said:

I use OCCT since Windows 7 and warmly recommend this tool too, especially for OC testing.

In my case, the CTDs unfortunately occur when no hardware problem appears during the tests and after removing all overclocking. And yes... with an empty Community folder ;-).
 
But let's talk seriously.
We are in 2021, in an era where digital games occupy a preponderant place, where competition is fierce and in which Microsoft wants to be the leader with its flight simulator franchise.
In this context, do you think it's normal to have to do without XMP?
Having to use your PC only at its minimum power?
Having to clamp down on your computer for the game to work?
It's completely absurd, right?
 
I use my PC primarily for two reasons. FS and the editing of drone videos in 4K, which requires a lot of resources. Like many of us I have invested huge sums of money to have the best machine that allows me these two activities. The solution I found is to have to use 2 different BIOS profiles, which is completely archaic and annoying.
 
 
 
 

David, there are two different issues, if I may.

One is the frustration engendered by the incomplete and somewhat messy state of the sim. Most of us feel  this frustration for one reason or another. Several reasons actually 😁. The management of this project is one of a kind... 

Another one is to try to diagnose the CTD of a fellow simmer to help to find a solution, if any, by eliminating all the possible causes on which the user can act upon, including hardware boosts. Fuzzy's post is all the more welcome that we took "bad" habits in FSX and P3D like to overclock our computer.

 

Edited by Dominique_K
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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12 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

David, there are two different issues, if I may.

One is the frustration engendered by the incomplete and somewhat messy state of the sim. Most of us feel  this frustration for one reason or another. Several reasons actually 😁. The management of this project is one of a kind... 

Another one is to try to diagnose the CTD of a fellow simmer to help to find a solution, if any, by eliminating all the possible causes on which the user can act upon, including hardware boosts. Fuzzy's post is all the more welcome that we took "bad" habits in FSX and P3D like to overclock our computer.

 

With all due respect ( and I agree with your post)... the overclocking of flight sims was almost de riguer in the early days of flight simming, because when FSX first came out (and for many years thereafter and also with P3D and even X-plane)  the top end performance was way beyond the top of the range computers that existed so anything you could do to get a few more horsepower out of your machine was pretty much required..

Frankly, when MSFS first came out I was fully expecting to not be able to use ULTRA settings even with a top flight computer, and was happily proved wrong 🙂

Graham

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Posted (edited)

"Bad habits" was tongue-in-cheek.

I was surprised too to see how well it runs on my old computer. My memory is set to XMP but I stay on the standard clock for now.

Edited by Dominique_K

Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, David Roch said:

But let's talk seriously.
We are in 2021, in an era where digital games occupy a preponderant place, where competition is fierce and in which Microsoft wants to be the leader with its flight simulator franchise.

In this context, do you think it's normal to have to do without XMP?
Having to use your PC only at its minimum power?
Having to clamp down on your computer for the game to work?
It's completely absurd, right?

From what I have seen in 30 years of messing with PC hardware, a stable overclocked PC works exactly as at default settings, only faster.

A videogame doesn't care about the CPU or RAM clocks or the GPU temperature, it's only a stream of information that has to be processed. The number and nature of the operations that your computer has to do while running MSFS does not change with clocks, it just runs faster or slower.

So if you resolve an instability by changing the XMP profile or by lowering your CPU boost clock, it means that you had an underlying problem (voltage drops, high temperatures, too tight timings, etc.) and can't blame MSFS. Your PC may be stable for video editing but not for MSFS.

On the other hand there are bugs that are intrinsic in the game and occur regardless of the hardware settings: for example the CTDs caused by the G1000 in approach phase.

If you get rid of the first issue and avoid the second, you will have a 99% stable sim. I posted this also because of the other user who mentioned he was abandoning the game because of 6 CTDs one after the other... that's not normal and he probably has a hardware issue.

Edited by MrFuzzy
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i9 10850K / 64 GB 2933 MHz CL14 / RTX 3090 / HP Reverb G2

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MrFuzzy said:

 

If you get rid of the first issue and avoid the second, you will have a 99% stable sim. I posted this also because of the other user who mentioned he was abandoning the game because of 6 CTDs one after the other... that's not normal and he probably has a hardware issue.

While I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you write (it's essential to have your PC run 100% stable on the hardware side, and whether or not it runs stable depends on the specifics of the type of stress a demanding software creates), there are still plenty of other possibilities as to why a certain piece of software runs unstable with CTDs on one system, while on other computers it never crashes.

There have been lots of examples of bugs in either a software or a driver that only come to light in a very specific setup / software usage pattern, which may both be present in hardware drivers and/or MSFS, slightly non-standard behaviour of a driver under certain conditions, a timing that differs from the expected (i.e. a driver taking longer to respond than expected), unhandled exceptions/error conditions reported by a driver etc... These type of bugs are typically the hardest to identify because they only happen sporadically, and they only exist in very few hardware combinations. 

I have CTDs in MSFS every now and then, but never dug into it very much. It's annoying when it happens, but except for the VFR map bug, it wasn't frequent enough to take further action. I'll definitely run the OCCT test you suggest when I'm back at my simming rig tomorrow, even though it was stable the last time I checked with various 1-hour Prime95 runs, and ran multi-day numerical simulation runs on all 12 cores without a problem. I know these hardware issues can hide most of the time and only become apparent in certain workloads.

As some other users pointed out, it would be extremely helpful to have detailed log files from MSFS, and the possibility to send crash dumps to MS/Asobo by default. This is what's needed on the developer's side for tracking down CTD issues, and help users diagnose the root cause.

 

Edited by pstrub
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I used to have frequent CTD's , sometimes every flight. I worked through numerous possible fixes, including sending reports and crash logs to Zendesk.. al did absolutely sod all to fix the issue!

Then came the famous HOT Fix,along with updates to the Xbox app, Vcc runtime, and Win 10..... And guess what, never had on since other than a known issue with a certain addon (soon fixed)

So please, lets put this to bed, there are people out there that are suffering REAL issues with the sim, and the fault lies soley at MS and Asobo's door.

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MSFS only gives me Simconnect CTD’s because I am using the external Prosim cockpit suite. That is with Prosim in FSUIPC mode.

If I use Prosim in Simconnect mode I do not have CTD’s. Only Prosim then has a few functions not entirely correct working .

Like in P3D my big advantage is staying with one view so it does not trigger view cycle issues...

 


Gerard

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Posted (edited)

I'm glad to see XMP finally getting mentioned.  I wanted to bring it up yesterday but wasn't in a mind to.

I discovered a while back that XMPs may not be stable - they're a selling point for some manufacturers I think - but a person like me is better off leaving the setting to 'AUTO'.

a good power supply and leaving things as default as possible... its a good starting point to minimize trouble.

Edited by sightseer
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|   Dave   |    

I've been around for most of my life.

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I can get through a 2 hour flight between two major cities.  It always crashes as the destination airport loads.  Especially if it's 3rd party.  

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18 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

or external software, mods and freeware. That doesn’t say that MFS has not its own flaws of course, it certainly has, but any CTD diagnosis should be done with MFS clean of addons on a non O/Ced computer. Then we can talk. Anything else is rant. 

 

Here we go again.


AMD 3950X | 64GB RAM | AMD 5700XT | CH Fighterstick / Pro Throttle / Pro Pedals

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