Note that the game with sensitivity set to zero is NOT linear. 

In P3D or XPlane if you do not touch sensitivity you get a 1:1 mapping between stick/yoke movement and what happens in game.  This is NOT the case with MSFS.

In MSFS the default sensitivity if you set the sliders to "zero" decelerates the first part of the curves and then kicks in with acceleration at the end. Presumably they did this assuming everyone is using a notchy short throw combat stick ?

Basically +50% acceleration gets you roughly back to linear.

That said, the Carenado twins seem to have some sort of custom sensitivity people have also complained about the Seneca,

Edited June 30, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

46 minutes ago, fppilot said:

That answers my question.  Seems to exclude the controller.  For MSFS do you have sensitivities set in more than one place?  Windows?  FSUIPC7?  Controller config software?

Well, that's a good question.  I did build a profile in FSUIPC7, but I've got it turned off.  I removed the pitch, roll and yaw axis from the joystick in MSFS and added them for Joystick Curves profile.  I do have a Joystick profile in Windows - I guess for the driver.  No other software that I am aware of.  I just realized my Joystick is a Logitech Force 3D Pro.  Does MSFS even support force feedback?  Not that that makes any difference.

6 minutes ago, SmokeDiddy said:

Does MSFS even support force feedback?  Not that that makes any difference.

The age of the force feedback device could possibly make a lot of difference.  As well as a driver for it.  That is a guess.  Do you know someone close by you could borrow another more up-to-date controller from?

Edited June 30, 20214 yr by fppilot

3 minutes ago, SmokeDiddy said:

 Does MSFS even support force feedback?  Not that that makes any difference.

 

Not natively. You can get a fair semblance of FFB happening with XPForce which does help with control (at least on my MS FFB2 which is too "light" with FFB off)  but it is not free there is a small subscription.

2 minutes ago, fppilot said:

The age of the force feedback device could possibly make a lot of difference.  That is a guess.  Do you know someone close by you could borrow another more up-to-date controller from?

My FFB2 is 20 years old and works fine.  However it does use digital sensors not potentiometers that can wear out.  No idea what the logitech comes with.

Though these day I spend most of my time on my Fulcrum yoke rather than the FFB even though both are plugged in.   The long throw and fairly solid resistance too movement of the Fulcrum make it fairly realistic even compared to FFB.  Part of the issues people have is because combat sticks are designed for short sharp extreme control movements that are the exact opposite of what you need in Civilian sims.

This interesting review comparing the Fulcrum to the very popular and respected Honeycomb makes some very good points about what makes a good Civilian flight sim yoke. (basically the Honeycomb is a level again above the "toy" stuff like CH but is still not perfect by any means)

 

 

5 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

basically the Honeycomb is a level again above the "toy" stuff like CH but is still not perfect by any means

I have run the gambit on yokes over the years, but have refused to pork out for one at $3X to even $10X the price of a easily-more-than adequate yoke that perhaps adds 0.10X to the equation.  Spent too many business years making decisions like that and staying in business to start making those now. 

The Honeycomb is hands down the clear winner in my realm of experience.  Another consideration for me is that my simulation environment is multi-purpose.  My flying environment is also my personal business and investments management environment.  i.e.  my desk is a high quality piece of furniture.  The yoke and quadrant I use mount in place when in use, and are off on a shelfing unit when not!  A heavy, oversized, bulky, metal encased, industrial-looking yoke or quadrant are not in my flying environment, or in my future!  If I ever build a dedicated home cockpit that might change. 

My Honeycomb Alpha is well more than adequate, as is my Bravo.  If I update a controls unit it will be my Saitek Pro Cessna rudder pedals.  They are more than adequate, but the ergonomics just do not match what is in my realm of experience in actual aircraft models.

2 hours ago, fppilot said:

  The yoke and quadrant I use mount in place when in use, and are off on a shelfing unit when not!  A heavy, oversized, bulky, metal encased, industrial-looking yoke or quadrant are not in my flying environment, or in my future!  If I ever build a dedicated home cockpit that might change. 
 

The fulcrum handle is removable meaning you can leave it in place and just remove the handle, though I found after constant dismounting the thread on the grub screw stripped out so I fitted a bigger one.

 

The honeycomb is more than "adequate" it is quite good. Which does not mean it cannot be be improved, more tension on the aileron axis and a slightly longer elevator throw being two things they could look at on the next version.

Edited June 30, 20214 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Thanks for the tips and recommendations on my controls sensitivity issue everyone!  I cannot rule out the dirty pots in my Logitech Force 3D stick, so, since it's by birthday tomorrow and big mama asked what I wanted, I ordered a Thrustmaster T16000M last night.  I'll see how that works out.  I think because MSFS is "over sensitive" by default, and my Logitech stick is well over 10 years old, it perpetuates the dirty pots issue.  I had similar issues with my CH Yoke which was about the same age when it started acting like this.  Whereas in XP11, I think there is more forgiveness in the controls sensitivity even with dirty pots to a point...and maybe why the jerkiness is not so prominent.  That's my theory and I'm stickin to it.  I'll report back once I have my new stick.

Robert

On 6/29/2021 at 7:17 PM, fppilot said:

I have run the gambit on yokes over the years, but have refused to pork out for one at $3X to even $10X the price of a easily-more-than adequate yoke that perhaps adds 0.10X to the equation.  Spent too many business years making decisions like that and staying in business to start making those now. 

The Honeycomb is hands down the clear winner in my realm of experience.  Another consideration for me is that my simulation environment is multi-purpose.  My flying environment is also my personal business and investments management environment.  i.e.  my desk is a high quality piece of furniture.  The yoke and quadrant I use mount in place when in use, and are off on a shelfing unit when not!  A heavy, oversized, bulky, metal encased, industrial-looking yoke or quadrant are not in my flying environment, or in my future!  If I ever build a dedicated home cockpit that might change. 

My Honeycomb Alpha is well more than adequate, as is my Bravo.  If I update a controls unit it will be my Saitek Pro Cessna rudder pedals.  They are more than adequate, but the ergonomics just do not match what is in my realm of experience in actual aircraft models.

Interesting that you say this as I too am in the same situation at my work desk.  However, the size of the Honeycomb product has been one of my issues.  When you said 'oversized' about the Fulcrum I was a bit confused as it is smaller in every dimension and thus is one of the yoke I am looking at.  Fulcrum (14" deep x 8" wide x 4" high) vs Honeycomb (17" deep x 12" wide x 8" high).

I have to say I was intrigued with the multitude of switches on the comb but per the vid posted here, they may be of very limited use.

I received my new Thrustmaster stick yesterday and have it installed and configured.  I love the stick!  It is stiffer than the Logitech, so I'll have to get used to that; nevertheless, the sensitivity issue I was having is now gone, except for the Carenado Seminole, it is still too sensitive in my opinion, but with the new stick, I'm not getting the jumps/dives on approach like I was.  Anyway, thank you all again for your comments, recommendations, etc.  This is what makes this forum really great.  I can't remember any issue I've posted here where I did not get it resolved or at least help and support.  So, I appreciate it very much.  If anyone has any advice to share on the Thrustmaster T16000M, I'm all ears; in the mean time, I'm going flying.

Happy 4th of July everyone!

Robert

On 7/2/2021 at 10:53 AM, SmokeDiddy said:

Thanks for the tips and recommendations on my controls sensitivity issue everyone!  I cannot rule out the dirty pots in my Logitech Force 3D stick, so, since it's by birthday tomorrow and big mama asked what I wanted, I ordered a Thrustmaster T16000M last night.  I'll see how that works out.  I think because MSFS is "over sensitive" by default, and my Logitech stick is well over 10 years old, it perpetuates the dirty pots issue.  I had similar issues with my CH Yoke which was about the same age when it started acting like this.  Whereas in XP11, I think there is more forgiveness in the controls sensitivity even with dirty pots to a point...and maybe why the jerkiness is not so prominent.  That's my theory and I'm stickin to it.  I'll report back once I have my new stick.

Robert

You will love the T 16000M. Any controller that still uses pots instead of hall ICs , is old school junk, in my opinion. Sooner or later the pots get noisy, and then it's into the trash can. 

On 6/29/2021 at 4:50 PM, fppilot said:

Know something?  The best golf I ever played was with an old set of forged blade irons and a persimmon driver.  Then I started chasing newer designs such as investment cast irons, graphite shaft drivers, and offset putters!  I finally learned it just wasn't about the chase......  It was about me!

I don't think we've reached that point yet. Golf has extremely diminishing returns with more expensive equipment. With flight sims, and racing sims as well (both of which need expensive equipment), you don't have diminishing returns. Going from an Extreme 3d pro to a TCA sidestick is worth it, and so is going from a TCA sidestick to a honeycomb yoke, etc, etc.

 

But it really all depends on the meat sitting between the chair and the keyboard.

2 hours ago, Concodroid said:

But it really all depends on the meat sitting between the chair and the keyboard.

👍 +1³

Hey never know try this for the heck of it works well on my saitek yoke - you will have to paly with the settings - a pia but this is where most the problems are caused by wrong sensitivity settings

My controls are so gentle I have to go the whip to get the plane to react much at all. I might be able to land with my feet on stick and throttle.

I cheated by setting up wimpy control sensitivities which means I can't bomb around in the sky and show off. But landing is to come gentle in from the night.

To fly more aggressively I just click on a new profile that instantly roars the controllers back to life instead of just holding my hand and whispering nothings.