Okay, I'll bite.

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I'm still seeing people taking constant swipes at Carenado concerning their Waco and at this point I'm not finding issue with it.

Are you saying you find the Waco's take-off behaviour to be (vaguely) realistic? Because it's sadly nowhere near the way a Waco behaves on take-off. And as far as I know Carenado has done absolutely nothing to address the issue, and that my friend, is likely the root for the widespread dislike for Carenado's products. 

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That being said once again they produced a nice product, the C170B.  One bug has been found out of an otherwise great little aircraft.

Two bugs: that in-your-face orange light and battery dying. Minor, I know, but it doesn't say much about the pre-release testing process; much less the fidelity of the flight (or, in this case, ground) dynamics.

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... about XPlane which is getting to be a tired argument at this point considering the glaring shortcomings of that sim.

Please tell us more about the 'glaring shortcomings'?

Edited July 10, 20214 yr by lupedelupe

I think the title should of been "how to takeoff and Land" 

I personly love them, The hardest one for me is the Milviz FG-1D, its a beast and need a strong firm hand. The Spitfire is a lovely dance and can be smooth as silk if you have the skils. A very over looked aircraft on these forums is the the Ryan, what a wonderfully, stunning done aircraft thats perfect for sight seeing and does not have a speed of what seems like walking like the C40 c70. Get the Ryan guys its wonderfull.

Edited July 10, 20214 yr by Nyxx

You can't learn to taxi in a tailwheel using a sim.

Like helicopter, the dynamic's are totally different.

Edited July 10, 20214 yr by Manny

4 hours ago, lupedelupe said:

Okay, I'll bite.

Are you saying you find the Waco's take-off behaviour to be (vaguely) realistic? Because it's sadly nowhere near the way a Waco behaves on take-off. And as far as I know Carenado has done absolutely nothing to address the issue, and that my friend, is likely the root for the widespread dislike for Carenado's products. 

Two bugs: that in-your-face orange light and battery dying. Minor, I know, but it doesn't say much about the pre-release testing process; much less the fidelity of the flight (or, in this case, ground) dynamics.

Please tell us more about the 'glaring shortcomings'?

The hate is truly real with some.  That being said I'd rather have Carenado models as an option in FS2020 with their 'so called' short coming than not at all. As amazing as these models are many have become spoiled brats considering what we had only a few years ago and the dated platforms (FSX, XPlane, etc) we used. I think back to the days of FLIGHT where no meaningful third party developer embraced that sim and all we had was default aircraft (although not that bad except for the ones with no cockpit).  Not even Papa Tango would mess with FLIGHT.  I know bad models when I see them and in this class would be Perfect Flight (years of word not allowed), VirtualCol's new E-Jet series, and Captainsim's 777 with an honorable mention to Bredok3D.  Carenado has a few missing items in an otherwise fantastic model and they need to be 'Canceled'.  Yet we overlook far worse with other developers.  Heck on a good day reading the forums or Youtube reviews Carenado seems to be the worst developer for FS2020 whether it be for their choice of selling exclusively on the Market Place (PMDG has said this is what keeps FS2020 viable to the suites at Corporate Microsoft hence we loose FS2020 like FLIGHT yet some of you push back on it, misinformed I guess) or the one item forgot with a gauge in the virtual cockpit. 

Bottom line is all points are void to me if the ones making the comments never flown a real aircraft much less a tail dragger.  I'm a real pilot and although I've never flown a tail dragger I can see the progression of sim technology from where we were just over a year ago with other sim offerings that we just accepted at the time. To criticize flight models and landing/takeoff characteristics to this level of hate and have never flown a real aircraft is crazy to me.  Would many of you be happy if Carenado exited out the game along with many others trying to make our sim world better?  You probably would...  Some of these guys making these add-ons are literally one person and in some cased pushing 70 years old doing this for the love of the hobby.  No one looks at that, they just assume it's a large group of people with a QA department.  If it's really bad like the aforementioned examples I gave then yes by all means let them have it but Carenado is not one of them.

Concerning Laminar/XPlane who has a complete development house with no excuses as your requested here's my issues with them:

1. Terrible presentation and it's been this way for years, the sim has always looked inferior to Flight Simulator and costs allot to bring it up to speed

2. No real development of a native ATC system and no plans to keep up with competition

3. Native weather options are basic with no plans to have a native real world weather system to keep up with competition

4. Outside of third party detail areas the sim looks bad with no plans to improve upon it in the default sim to keep up with competition

5. Misleading marketing selling the sim as the best on the market. Something that has been done for years unchallenged.  Where others over the years has pushed the bounds of what can be done Laminar rested on Flight Dynamics alone

 

Edited July 10, 20214 yr by Dillon

20 minutes ago, Manny said:

You can't learn to taxi in a tailwheel using a sim.

Like helicopter, the dynamic's are totally different.

Have you flown a real tail dragger?   With your logic I don't know how I got my license and now my son is using the sim for his IFR training.  I can't say exclusively yes or no on with tail draggers but judging by the real world training methods taught FS2020 is not a total wash out and is actually better than we ever had before.

We always default discrediting Flight Simulator on so many things.  I remember years ago having the opportunity to go into a real world 744 simulator and fly it for a few hours marveling at how close PMDG got to the real thing. The only thing they didn't get was the lag when turning the aircraft in the air.  The default FS2020 744 models this perfectly to a point when PMDG releases their version in a few months I can say ahead of time you'll have a near identical representation of the 744 outside of full motion.  With a VR headset your all but there.  The Milviz Corsair is all but being there in the real plane tail characteristics and all (and this is from talking with someone at Fantasy of Flight who's name I will not mention here).

1 hour ago, Dillon said:

Blah, blah, blah.

 

If you are referring to me when you say 'the hate is truly real with some' then you are making leaps to conclusions. You know practically nothing about me, nothing about the fact that I have been involved in many of Carenado's releases and that I quite like a large clutch of Carenado's offerings (across FS, XP11 and now MSFS). 

You have evaded my question regarding your opinion on the MSFS Waco's take-off behaviour. 

You fly in real life; good for you, but this certainly doesn't make you an expert on all matters in aviation, and to write off the opinion of anyone don't know is probably not the best approach to feed what should be an inquisitive mind (pilots should never stop learning).

NASA and Airbus (to name a few) seems to think that X-Plane is pretty good. And no, I am not knocking MSFS in any way, it's a brilliant platform and likely to improve a lot in the coming years. 

And here's another surprise for you: I bought the Carenado C170B and really enjoy it. So perhaps best if you leave your prejudices at the door. 🙂

4 hours ago, Dillon said:

Have you flown a real tail dragger?   With your logic I don't know how I got my license and now my son is using the sim for his IFR training.  I can't say exclusively yes or no on with tail draggers but judging by the real world training methods taught FS2020 is not a total wash out and is actually better than we ever had before.

We always default discrediting Flight Simulator on so many things.  I remember years ago having the opportunity to go into a real world 744 simulator and fly it for a few hours marveling at how close PMDG got to the real thing. The only thing they didn't get was the lag when turning the aircraft in the air.  The default FS2020 744 models this perfectly to a point when PMDG releases their version in a few months I can say ahead of time you'll have a near identical representation of the 744 outside of full motion.  With a VR headset your all but there.  The Milviz Corsair is all but being there in the real plane tail characteristics and all (and this is from talking with someone at Fantasy of Flight who's name I will not mention here).

Yes. I have 47 hours total in tailwheels. I have flown the Citabria, American decathlon and the  Stearman.  That's why I am confident when I say it doesn't taxi well.

Its not that hard.

I have not ever ground looped it.

In the sim, Its rare that I Taxi without ground looping it. 🙂

Edited July 10, 20214 yr by Manny

On 7/9/2021 at 8:12 AM, Ixoye said:

I have no major problems flying a taildragger, but I do not like them, mainly because they give such poor visibility at taxis and takeoffs.

Hit your space bar while in cockpit.   It raises you up a foot or so.

I love the challenege, first flight with the 170 stopped at the runway after taxiiing hitting the bakes as usual and voila headbutted the conrete runway 🙂 After that I just needed to adjust and all was well. 

I haven't flown anything but the default tailwheelers, but...

...come in for a wheel landing with lateral movement... let the wheels touch down. IRL, your tail would end up in your face and your shorts would be soiled. In the sim, the tires will touch down and you'll magically be headed straight down the runway like an arrow.

Lateral ground friction is non-existent. This applies to tricycle-geared planes as well... land with heavy lateral motion and the struts should be yelling at you as the body of the plane rolls like an 80's sedan. Ground handling in all flight sims has issues, and I haven't found any 3rd party planes that make it any better. A big part of the challenge of tailwheels is lost because of the bad ground handling.

You might be interested to know that out of all the Stearmans I tested in this video (and that was in four popular flight sims with payware and freeware Stearmans), the only sim which had one that could genuinely do a destructive ground loop if you abused it, was actually the free one in Microsoft Flight.

One thing about MSFS, which I really do like, and you can see it on the taxi out on many of my reviews starting out at EGCB, is the uneven terrain and how that makes taxying pretty convincing in at least this respect. Ironically however, of the aeroplanes I've recently been doing reviews of, the one which was unstable on the ground during taxying turns if you abused it, was not even a taildragger, it was the Nemeth Yakovlev 18T. That thing will go over on its wingtip if you turn it too tight in the taxy, which is sort of accurate because the 18T does have a weird stalky undercarriage with a very short trail, and this on an aeroplane which started out as a taildragger in the twin tandem seat 18 variant, before Yakovlev built it as the 18T with a tricycle-gear configuration and gave it four seats.

Edited July 11, 20214 yr by Chock

23 hours ago, lupedelupe said:

If you are referring to me when you say 'the hate is truly real with some' then you are making leaps to conclusions. You know practically nothing about me, nothing about the fact that I have been involved in many of Carenado's releases and that I quite like a large clutch of Carenado's offerings (across FS, XP11 and now MSFS). 

You have evaded my question regarding your opinion on the MSFS Waco's take-off behaviour. 

You fly in real life; good for you, but this certainly doesn't make you an expert on all matters in aviation, and to write off the opinion of anyone don't know is probably not the best approach to feed what should be an inquisitive mind (pilots should never stop learning).

NASA and Airbus (to name a few) seems to think that X-Plane is pretty good. And no, I am not knocking MSFS in any way, it's a brilliant platform and likely to improve a lot in the coming years. 

And here's another surprise for you: I bought the Carenado C170B and really enjoy it. So perhaps best if you leave your prejudices at the door. 🙂

My comments are about all the Carenado haters who put down this developer when a new release hits the market and these people jump to criticize it before even trying it.  It's like the Arrow stigma and/or missteps in past versions of Flight Simulator can never be forgiven.  It was amazing to see the 180 degree turn many of them did in the forums with the Seneca as more people were getting it and commented how solid of a release it was.  Most of us are names in the forums and I haven't been watching you specifically to differentiate so sorry about the perceived generalization but the negativity towards Carenado is getting old. 

23 hours ago, Manny said:

Yes. I have 47 hours total in tailwheels. I have flown the Citabria, American decathlon and the  Stearman.  That's why I am confident when I say it doesn't taxi well.

Its not that hard.

I have not ever ground looped it.

In the sim, Its rare that I Taxi without ground looping it. 🙂

Then I for one put more weight on what you say on the subject.  Sims will never be perfect but our feedback is why we have what we have today in a base platform (FS2020).  With this thing going to XBOX the misinformed information is going to balloon times ten and those of use who actually know need to offer a little checks and balance.  Like I said above harping on one developer (which is actually one of our better ones) if they dare mention a new release or release something is a mob mentality/cancel culture scenario in these forums that needs to stop.  I'm seeing people go negative on this developer just because they heard/read others do it, nevermind trying the product for themselves (monkey see, monkey do).  This was more true than ever with the Seneca release, many had to eat crow... 

Edited July 11, 20214 yr by Dillon

On 7/10/2021 at 3:58 PM, Manny said:

 

In the sim, Its rare that I Taxi without ground looping it. 🙂

Strange, I've flown many tail draggers in P3D and MFS, Texan, An-2, Cub, DC-3, P-40, P-51, Spit', Corsair etc. I have had my share of ground loops during take off and the rollout. Never during taxi ! How do you do that ? 

On 7/9/2021 at 2:12 PM, Ixoye said:

I have no major problems flying a taildragger, but I do not like them, mainly because they give such poor visibility at taxis and takeoffs.

But, but... It is what makes them fun 🤣. The thrill to see the runway rising during the take off roll or  do three-point with no visibility ! TD teach you to do things right or else...

2 hours ago, Dillon said:

ll the Carenado haters

I am no hater, I bought two aircraft from them and their sister company, Alabeo, admittedly 10-odd years ago . I didn't like them, thats all. This is a rare occurrence that I don't like what I buy because I do my homework. They were very average. C may have improved since. Maybe. But I see the same pattern, they crank out aircraft like mad and that makes me still sceptical. 

Edited July 11, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

47 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Strange, I've flown many tail draggers in P3D and MFS, Texan, An-2, Cub, DC-6, P-40, P-51, Spit', Corsair etc. I have had my share of ground loops during take off and the rollout. Never during taxi ! How do you do that ? 

But, but... It is what makes them fun 🤣. The thrill to see the runway rising during the take off roll or  do three-point with no visibility ! TD teach you to do things right or else...

I

I meant when I Take off and roll out 🙂