11 hours ago, martin-w said:

Yeah its utter nonsense. It only applies to standby power, and doesn't impact custom builds at all.

And more powerful PC's have a higher sleep power consumption allowance to accommodate them.

And of course nothing wrong with limiting standby or sleep power consumption.

People who write these articles  should get their facts right.

It's not draconian at all. It's common sense to keep power consumption low when a PC is in standby mode and you haven't turned it off. 

No, it's not nonsense.  It does not only apply to standby power.  The fact is that you cannot buy certain computer systems in those States if they don't comply with the power consumption limits.   You obviously didn't read the California regulation which appears in the article.

Regulations like these may not apply to you right now, but rest assured that over time the regulations will get more and more restrictive.  This is what govts. do, IE they incrementally enact restrictions on freedom until one day you won't have it anymore.

Just wait until millions of people have to charge their car batteries every day - then we'll get *really* restrictive power regulations.  Hope you don't need air conditioning.

Dave

18 hours ago, Fielder said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/59-million-americans-prohibited-buying-high-end-dell-gaming-pcs

 

Oh, nos!  Climate warming!

 

Sorry to correct you but I think you will find that description is so last year, to blame ALL normal climate phenomenons on those trying to live a normal life, I belive it is now "climate change".

13 hours ago, dave2013 said:

No, it's not nonsense.  It does not only apply to standby power. 

 

David... try watching the Jayz2Cents video and the Gamers Nexus videos I posted, where they go into the regulations in great detail. They even highlight the exact wording that confirms its just sleep/standby/idle power. NOT when you are applying a load to your PC.

7:52 In Gamers Nexus:

"The CEC is not  targeting these devices as a whole, just in general. It's instead looking at specific usage scenario's. So, those usage scenarios are basically boiled down to idle, idle time power usage." 

"The regulation has nothing to do with when the devices are being actively used. So when you are playing a game these regulations do not count. "

"Its about this computer exceeds the idle power consumption when its doing nothing."

I could quote from JayZ2Cents video as well, but I'm sure you have the capability to watch the video. Also note, that consideration is actually made in the regulation for higher powered components that could have a higher idle power requirement and those PC's are given a higher limit to accommodate their higher performance components. 

 

Quote

Regulations like these may not apply to you right now, but rest assured that over time the regulations will get more and more restrictive

 

We've always had restrictions, we've had idle power consumption guidelines too. And no, they haven't impacted the performance of our PC's. The trend will continue in terms of encouraging the industry to limit power consumption when our PC's aren't doing anything.  Its not new. And as before, performance has not been impacted and there is no evidence it will be, it's not a workable scenario. 

If you want to speculate about future draconian measures that haven't happened and there is no evidence of them coming to fruition... feel free. Its fun to exercise our imaginations.  

 

Edited July 30, 20214 yr by martin-w

nvrmnd.

Edited July 30, 20214 yr by sightseer

Back to smaller computers and FSX?

Noel

32 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Back to smaller computers and FSX?

Noel

 

No! Read my replies. Watch the videos posted by me and another.

I was being facetious Martin.

Noel

Let`s hope the rumour about the next Gen AMD and NV GPU`s drawing over 400W is wrong. how long before 1000w will not be enough, time will tell.  

8 hours ago, G-RFRY said:

how long before 1000w will not be enough, time will tell. 

 

Its a complex question. The vast majority of PC users don't have any need for 1000 watt PSU's. It's just we enthusiasts that spec the most powerful enthusiast grade components and cooling and push our systems hard with overclocking that require impresive wattage and we are a minority.

And how many of us really need the wattage we think we do. Whack a Kill A Watt in the socket and most people see way less being drawn than they expected.

Many of us over specify our PSU's thinking its a good idea so that we are spending most of our time in the most efficient PSU range, usually around 50%. Even that philosophy is now debatable given that modern PSU's are still highly efficient right up to 90% load.

More complication arises with the new ATX 12VO standard. Intel have a new PSU design they are promoting that cuts idle power consumption by a massive 50%. It dispenses with the 5V and 3V rails and some of the circuitry is required to be on the motherboard. So new motherboards required. Its a standard, that if succesful, will probably be slowly adopted, and at first for pre built PC's.

This is drifting in the direction of a pure hardware discussion so I'll  leave it at that.

 

 

On 7/29/2021 at 2:11 PM, dave2013 said:

Just wait until millions of people have to charge their car batteries every day - then we'll get *really* restrictive power regulations.  Hope you don't need air conditioning.

You'll get time of usage pricing, which is exactly what a free market advocate like yourself would support. That will shift charging towards overnight hours, which is exactly what the grid needs.

Cheers!

3 hours ago, Luke said:

You'll get time of usage pricing, which is exactly what a free market advocate like yourself would support. That will shift charging towards overnight hours, which is exactly what the grid needs.

Cheers!

I hope you're right.  Hopefully the grid can handle charging millions of vehicles every night.  I haven't done the research to see of there's enough capacity.

BTW, I am a free market advocate, but not an extreme unfettered capitalism kind of guy.  The market needs reasonable rules and regulations and oversight.  I am just as afraid of powerful corporations as I am of powerful governments.  Just look at how powerful, wealthy, and pervasive big tech has become in such a short time, not to mention the military industrial complex and big pharma/healthcare complex.

Dave

6 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Hopefully the grid can handle charging millions of vehicles every night. 

 

Millions of electric vehicles haven't and won't appear instantly. Adoption of electric vehicles is a gradual process with time for power grids to adapt. 

The Smart Grid is the way forward. 

Edited August 2, 20214 yr by martin-w

14 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I hope you're right.  Hopefully the grid can handle charging millions of vehicles every night.  I haven't done the research to see of there's enough capacity.

Beyond martin-w's point (we're not all buying electric vehicles tomorrow) when combined with TOU pricing I don't see much of a grid impact at all. Right now I'm in the peak of my electrical usage in mid-summer, and I pull up to 10kWh every hour during the middle of the day with my air conditioning usage. At night, things drop down to around 3kWh - and around 700Wh during the winter. Getting an electric charger that pulls around 5-6kW on 240V won't increase my overall load at night.

14 hours ago, dave2013 said:

BTW, I am a free market advocate, but not an extreme unfettered capitalism kind of guy.  The market needs reasonable rules and regulations and oversight. 

You're not alone. Most people are in favor of a free market so long as it means they pay less. The challenge is going to be when the free market sends signals back to consumers that will either make them change their behavior or suffer some pain.

Cheers!

9 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Millions of electric vehicles haven't and won't appear instantly. Adoption of electric vehicles is a gradual process with time for power grids to adapt. 

The Smart Grid is the way forward. 

Even so, in the US (which is heavily reliant on personal ICE vehicles) the transportation sector only uses about one third of the total energy usage. Almost all of that comes from burning petroleum products. With grid management, the shift to electric vehicles should be possible to accommodate.

Residential energy usage represents approximately another third of energy usage. This sector has been declining as energy efficient lighting, appliances and HVAC have replaced legacy models. The one unknown is whether more air conditioning will be needed as the climate continues to warm.