6 minutes ago, neil0311 said:

Of course it is. That’s doesn’t make it “your fault” but when two users are using the same application, and one has issues and one doesn’t, it means there is something specific to the configuration of the user having issues. And the fix is to figure out the variable(s) and adjust the application or fix the bug(s).

That’s IT troubleshooting 101. 

No it is not my computer. That implies on some level it IS my fault and that I have to change some part or another. The fault is *obviously* in their app and nothing else. They have *clearly* broken something going from SU4 to SU5. This is utterly undeniable.

3 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

No it is not my computer. That implies on some level it IS my fault and that I have to change some part or another. The fault is *obviously* in their app and nothing else. They have *clearly* broken something going from SU4 to SU5. This is utterly undeniable.

I addressed this. No one is saying it’s your fault.

But issues are caused by differences in hardware and software configuration. It’s not random. It’s not caused by solar flares.

Some folks are obviously configured in a way that contributes to CTDs. Others are not. I’m thankful that I’m not.

11 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

"we are currently investigating and planning on several fixes for update 6" is vague at best. The comment about SU6 (which is weeks and weeks away) feels like a slightly desperate attempt att buying time.

It's because the reason for CTDs often is vague at best. CTDs are extremely annoying, but often they're among the most elusive bugs, especially if they're sporadic and happen only on a specific combination of hardware, drivers and system settings. From all I can tell, they're treating them as a priority, I'm surprised how much people are reading into the wording and details of these announcements...

It's strange how a lot seem to think it's down to the user. For months there were virtually no reports of folk having issues one way or the other. All of a sudden SU5 drops, and nearly half have some real serious issues including constant CTD's. They did nothing, and the issues are clearly down to SU5 and their following HotFix. It's simple logic, nothing broken before, all of a sudden Bang! straight after a update the problems appear.

 

Lets hope they fix it this time.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Car147

3 minutes ago, pstrub said:

It's because the reason for CTDs often is vague at best. CTDs are extremely annoying, but often they're among the most elusive bugs, especially if they're sporadic and happen only on a specific combination of hardware, drivers and system settings. From all I can tell, they're treating them as a priority, I'm surprised how much people are reading into the wording and details of these announcements...

May want to read through this thread (among others). Some folks attributed the issues to their version of video drivers. I doubt it’s that cut and dry, but I’m amazed at the lack of understanding by some of how issues happen and the huge matrix of dependencies that goes into testing software and that causes most issues. 
 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/asobo-completely-quiet-about-these-ctd/428022/156

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by neil0311

3 minutes ago, Car147 said:

It's strange how a lot seem to think it's down to the user.

Wow…let me make this more clear. No one is saying the user is at fault. But when two users, on two machines, are using the same software…and one has issues that the other doesn’t have…you can pin down the cause to something on that machine.

Obviously the application is the root cause, but if the application was the sole variable, then everyone would have the same issues under exactly the same circumstances regardless. And that’s not the case at all. 

4 minutes ago, pstrub said:

It's because the reason for CTDs often is vague at best. CTDs are extremely annoying, but often they're among the most elusive bugs, especially if they're sporadic and happen only on a specific combination of hardware, drivers and system settings. From all I can tell, they're treating them as a priority, I'm surprised how much people are reading into the wording and details of these announcements...

No. They are definitely NOT prioritizing CTDs if they are vague about a solution with the next update a month away?! How on earth can you come to the conclusion that they are prioritizing CTDs against that undeniably vague backdrop?

6 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

No. They are definitely NOT prioritizing CTDs if they are vague about a solution with the next update a month away?! How on earth can you come to the conclusion that they are prioritizing CTDs against that undeniably vague backdrop?

I've read what the WorkingTitle guys wrote here and on the MSFS forums. They made it very clear that CTDs are a priority.

You can't simply put the whole team on CTDs - they can only be fixed by those who are familiar with a specific piece of code, everyone else just wouldn't have the knowledge that's needed to get it fixed.

Edit: Let me add one thing. It's probably not clear how many different causes for the CTDs there are. If it turns out they're all down to the same bug, it may be quite simple to fix them all in one go. But it's just as possible that they're due to 20 different bugs that are all triggered by different conditions, and these are a lot of work to track down and fix. The thing is, it is very hard to predict how long it takes a developer to find the underlying reason for a specific CTD.

And btw, what makes you think they AREN'T prioritising CTDs?

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by pstrub

9 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

No. They are definitely NOT prioritizing CTDs if they are vague about a solution with the next update a month away?! How on earth can you come to the conclusion that they are prioritizing CTDs against that undeniably vague backdrop?

How can you say that they’re not?

I know not everyone is a software developer with decades of experience, but everyone is obviously clairvoyant and knows exactly what resources the dev team has on what aspects of what issues, and the critical path to resolution.

36 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

No it is not my computer. That implies on some level it IS my fault and that I have to change some part or another. The fault is *obviously* in their app and nothing else. They have *clearly* broken something going from SU4 to SU5. This is utterly undeniable.

My system was rock solid with SU4 and before. The 1st flight of SU% I started getting CTD's. I had been running an older AMD driver as that is what "worked" for MSFS before SU5. I installed a new driver and no more CTD's. Then a newer version of SU5 brought back the CTD's. After trying multiple "fixes" I tried installing the newest AMD driver in the "Driver Only" option, meaning no AMD Control panel thingy. No more CTD's. So, Richard, who is at fault? Asobo or me? 

4 minutes ago, Mikeingreen said:

My system was rock solid with SU4 and before. The 1st flight of SU% I started getting CTD's. I had been running an older AMD driver as that is what "worked" for MSFS before SU5. I installed a new driver and no more CTD's. Then a newer version of SU5 brought back the CTD's. After trying multiple "fixes" I tried installing the newest AMD driver in the "Driver Only" option, meaning no AMD Control panel thingy. No more CTD's. So, Richard, who is at fault? Asobo or me? 

There is nothing wrong with my drivers. They are up to date. *Everything* else works like a charm and as expected. Then Asobo *undeniably* breaks something. Yet you imply this is somehow my fault?

1 hour ago, Swe_Richard said:

No it is not my computer. That implies on some level it IS my fault and that I have to change some part or another. The fault is *obviously* in their app and nothing else. They have *clearly* broken something going from SU4 to SU5. This is utterly undeniable.

Been troubleshooting electronic equipment all my working life and in the last couple of decades much of it was computer based. When running into a problem, the first thing we ask, if the problem suddenly developed, was, what did you change last. People were running Su4 with no problems, then they installed SU5 and troubles galore popped up. To say this is a fault of their equipment which after the update is suddenly malfunctioning, is beyond ridiculous. Anyone that thinks that way , has absolutely no idea of how to troubleshoot a problem. 

Just so that I can get an understanding, the youtuber is taking some forum community post from Asobo as some official release notes for the hotfix and WU. He's upset because Asobo didn't flat out say that they don't know what's causing the CTD's, though they stated that they are investigating the CTD's (which implies that they are not sure what's causing the CTD's). He's upset because they are not releasing it in a timely manner, but hotfixes rarely come out in 2 weeks time even for more established sims.

16 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

People were running Su4 with no problems, then they installed SU5 and troubles galore popped up. To say this is a fault of their equipment which after the update is suddenly malfunctioning, is beyond ridiculous. Anyone that thinks that way , has absolutely no idea of how to troubleshoot a problem. 

Sigh…it’s not ridiculous at all, it’s exactly the case. And can we stop using the word “fault” which implies intent or negligence?

If an update to SU5 (and subsequent hotfix) was the only variable involved, why are a majority of people on that recent poll here in the forum reporting their experience is better? Everyone would have the same exact issues if the update alone was the cause. That’s not the case.

If an update to SU5 and hotfix is the only variable, then why have I not had a single CTD…after hours of “flying” and even bumping up my settings to “ultra” to try and reproduce the issues?

Anyone who has ever troubleshot something should know that while you can isolate the last change, the base you started with matters too. Your Windows configuration probably isn’t the same as mine or many other people’s. Your MSFS configuration isn’t the same either. Your add ons aren’t the same. Your hardware isn’t the same (which means your drivers are different).

So sure, for your machine, the addition of the updates is causing an issue. No one is debating that fact. But since the update is categorically not causing those same issues on every other machine, it’s the combination of your configuration and the update.

As I said earlier, root cause is the update. No one is debating that. This truly is IT troubleshooting 101 level stuff folks. 

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by neil0311

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

 To say this is a fault of their equipment which after the update is suddenly malfunctioning, is beyond ridiculous. Anyone that thinks that way , has absolutely no idea of how to troubleshoot a problem. 

Exactly this.