1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@BostonJeremy77, it sound a right palava! Yuck!

Does the Steam version give you a huge path name to the parent folder? I’m guessing it wouldn’t be succinct like D:\P3Dv5 for example.

The  core launcher files are located in the ...\Steam\steamapps\common\MicrosoftFlightSimulator  folder and when the launcher runs you can choose a directory to install to. I chose D:\MicrosoftFlightSimulator on my gaming drive. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Available on 10 DVDs here...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-2020-Premium/dp/B08D193VQT

Reading the reviews I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole! 😳

Given the sheer amount of changes since the gold release you'd end up downloading 100GB of update data anyway so might as well get the download version and be done with it.  

3 minutes ago, FrankSalo said:

Given the sheer amount of changes since the gold release you'd end up downloading 100GB of update data anyway so might as well get the download version and be done with it.  

I own it just for the nice booklet and as a collector's item but wouldn't suggest it for real installation. First, as you state, I doubt there are many files left from release. And second, installation is effectively via the MS Store as well, you just copy the Contents in advance, thus you share all potential issues with the MS Store, like file access restrictions.

I am a very happy camper since I switched to the Steam version early on. Except one case (MS server issues), I never had any issues with downloading or installing updates.

Kind regards, Michael

@FrankSalo, thanks. That at least is a reasonable path.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is that the alternative method of purchase and installation? Never had Steam and would rather not have to install it. Can I just buy the product as I can with P3D or XP without additional software?

Something just doesn’t ring right about buying the product for a paltry $100 or less and never having to make any further contribution to fund the servers holding over 2 Petabytes of data. Whatever type of drives they are replacement is guaranteed at some point. There must be dozens of them. Microsoft aren’t a charity.  I remain sceptical it will remain free for its lifetime.

I don't have anything to back this, but in my view the money MS gets from the market place (30 percent cut) is what could be used to maintain future development + infrastructure such as servers.

S.

2 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

Great to hear Simbol. Do you have current requests in?

Ted

Always..

I am always asking for new stuff 😂

4 minutes ago, simbol said:

I don't have anything to back this, but in my view the money MS gets from the market place (30 percent cut) is what could be used to maintain future development + infrastructure such as servers.

S.

 But surely some of that would go to Asobo wouldn’t it? We’ll never know what the deal was between the two companies but with two involved they both need some income.

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Something just doesn’t ring right about buying the product for a paltry $100 or less and never having to make any further contribution to fund the servers holding over 2 Petabytes of data. Whatever type of drives they are replacement is guaranteed at some point. There must be dozens of them. Microsoft aren’t a charity.  I remain sceptical it will remain free for its lifetime.

This has been discussed already but the server costs for MSFS are probably cheap because Microsoft already owns Azure and Azure cloud scales very economically: 

Also, as other people have mentioned, Microsoft has a larger overall revenue strategy with X-Box gamepass.  Microsoft also gets a cut, I believe it’s 30% of marketplace sales.  And Microsoft is also selling their own created content and have released several planes for sale in MSFS.  The Reno Air Race add-on will be another add-on from Microsoft. And there will be more add-ons for sale by Microsoft, such as the helicopter add-on.

I used to think Microsoft would end up charging us for streaming the satellite & photogrammetry data too but now I’m not so sure they will, especially if they come out with MSFS 2 in 2030 and make us pay all over again for a copy of that.

 

Edited September 29, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@BostonJeremy77, it sound a right palava! Yuck!

Does the Steam version give you a huge path name to the parent folder? I’m guessing it wouldn’t be succinct like D:\P3Dv5 for example.

No. My Steam Client is installed in the Steam library, but all the actual content is c:\msfs2020. You have an option to put it wherever. The client exe and dlls and such are under PF x86\Steam\steamapps\common\Microsoft Flight Simulator.

I didn’t even think of the DVD version - it’s useless cause everything needs a full update after that anyway. 

@abrams_tank, thanks. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

@BostonJeremy77, I just pointed to the physical media option as the question was asked. I agree it’s probably best avoided.

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@abrams_tank, thanks. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

@BostonJeremy77, I just pointed to the physical media option as the question was asked. I agree it’s probably best avoided.

So… one of the things P3D does REALLY well (as well as XP) that I want MSFS to do is ATC vectoring. Most of MSFS ATC is FSX based so I don’t know why that one thing didn’t transfer over. But when I am getting close to approach in P3D the ATC will carefully Vector you step by step. In MSFS it MAY give you one, but that’s it. Until you hit the approach phase, you CAN request another one, but as soon as you are cleared for an approach, there is no way to request a vector. That’s a problem. If I have zero visibility and no ILS, I am pretty doomed if I don’t have a LOC to lock onto. Additionally, if my NAV equipment is inadequate or experienced a failure (I had some weird issue with it on a TU-134 once), I really enjoy that ATC will give me constant heading guidance. If I was flying that TU-134 in MSFS…. Good luck. 😉

10 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Something just doesn’t ring right about buying the product for a paltry $100 or less and never having to make any further contribution to fund the servers holding over 2 Petabytes of data. Whatever type of drives they are replacement is guaranteed at some point. There must be dozens of them. Microsoft aren’t a charity.  I remain sceptical it will remain free for its lifetime.

If you look at the current world of cloud based infrastructure this is a somewhat outdated sentiment.  One can easily think of numerous examples of servers with reams of data that you don’t …. directly (key word here) … pay for.  The most obvious rhyming with Google 😉

Quite often the direct access to the data that a user sees and utilizes for free is a disguise for the real value to the data’s owner.  In the case of Google, a full record and catalogue of WHAT people are searching for at any given moment is worth billions (if not far more).  It’s essentially a real-time measure of the best market research you can buy and even beyond that if you’re creative about it.  Someone sagely observed that if you’re getting something for free, YOU are likely the product.

How does that relate to MSFS’ database? Not quite as clear, but again if you think outside the box you could simply notice that there are thousands of people pumping free mods with more and more specific scenery detail every day.  The “digital twin” of the earth they are building is being rapidly improved in a crowd-sourced fashion.  I’m sure one could find numerous ways to monetize the result to other applications.  IF that were to be true, why would you want to charge a subscription to potentially scare off all of these free content providers?

Of course this is all conjecture but the world has certainly gotten stranger these days and a scenario like that would fit right into the paradigm of our data centric landscape.

2 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

If you look at the current world of cloud based infrastructure this is a somewhat outdated sentiment.  One can easily think of numerous examples of servers with reams of data that you don’t …. directly (key word here) … pay for.  The most obvious rhyming with Google 😉

Quite often the direct access to the data that a user sees and utilizes for free is a disguise for the real value to the data’s owner.  In the case of Google, a full record and catalogue of WHAT people are searching for at any given moment is worth billions (if not far more).  It’s essentially a real-time measure of the best market research you can buy and even beyond that if you’re creative about it.  Someone sagely observed that if you’re getting something for free, YOU are likely the product.

How does that relate to MSFS’ database? Not quite as clear, but again if you think outside the box you could simply notice that there are thousands of people pumping free mods with more and more specific scenery detail every day.  The “digital twin” of the earth they are building is being rapidly improved in a crowd-sourced fashion.  I’m sure one could find numerous ways to monetize the result to other applications.  IF that were to be true, why would you want to charge a subscription to potentially scare off all of these free content providers?

Of course this is all conjecture but the world has certainly gotten stranger these days and a scenario like that would fit right into the paradigm of our data centric landscape.

Yup, this is possible when the scenery gateway system is created,  The scenery gateway system is supposed to be used by MSFS players to crowd source and fix airports.  But what if the scenery gateway system is expanded to fix the entire world in MSFS?  Microsoft can probably use the data that the players enter for the entire world and compare it to what they have in Bing.  This can then be used to improve Bing maps further.

Interesting stuff I found here. Thanks for sharing. 

Also interesting is, that a Topic called Flightsim Expo started on topic and ended up about MSFS Server costs and funding.... 🙂

 

7 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

So… one of the things P3D does REALLY well (as well as XP) that I want MSFS to do is ATC vectoring.

Not as well as Radar Contact v4. I still use it for every IFR flight and it behaves impeccably.

3 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

If you look at the current world of cloud based infrastructure this is a somewhat outdated sentiment.  One can easily think of numerous examples of servers with reams of data that you don’t …. directly (key word here) … pay for.  The most obvious rhyming with Google 😉

Quite often the direct access to the data that a user sees and utilizes for free is a disguise for the real value to the data’s owner.  In the case of Google, a full record and catalogue of WHAT people are searching for at any given moment is worth billions (if not far more).  It’s essentially a real-time measure of the best market research you can buy and even beyond that if you’re creative about it.  Someone sagely observed that if you’re getting something for free, YOU are likely the product.

How does that relate to MSFS’ database? Not quite as clear, but again if you think outside the box you could simply notice that there are thousands of people pumping free mods with more and more specific scenery detail every day.  The “digital twin” of the earth they are building is being rapidly improved in a crowd-sourced fashion.  I’m sure one could find numerous ways to monetize the result to other applications.  IF that were to be true, why would you want to charge a subscription to potentially scare off all of these free content providers?

Of course this is all conjecture but the world has certainly gotten stranger these days and a scenario like that would fit right into the paradigm of our data centric landscape.

With respect it’s not an outdated sentiment. It’s my opinion. What you’re suggesting might be happening is where I fly and with what aircraft is useful information to someone. I’m struggling to understand that concept.

What if I choose not to install any extra software? Plenty will stay with the core product and then get bored and move on.

A search engine and a flight simulator are nothing like each other. I’m even less likely to buy it now.