Will 3080Ti maintain 30FPS at 4k Ultra setting?

[Republic3D 1,232]

35 minutes ago, Noel said:

I just TO at EKCH in the 787-10 HD and at the gate frame rate is 42.  CPU load went to 87%, GPU 90%, and w/o a G-sync capable display there is no such thing as smooth, therefore I'm really limited to 30 since the only other option is 60.   I've used NCP's limiter to higher frame rates, say 40, and it does not compare favorably in terms of smooth, stutter-free animation to what happens w/ Vsync and presumably Gsync.  I'm not sure how R9 5900x compares w/ 9900K, but I know 3080Ti and 3090 are virtually identical--a while back I read one benchmark that showed 3080Ti outperformed 3090--but it was academic, meaningless in terms of real world performance difference, and most benchmarks since should make this clear.  So not sure where you're going to see 55 on the ground consistently***.  Once again, if smooth stutter-free is the goal then for me at the moment I'm limited to 30.  I've scrutinized the difference between vsync at 30 and 60, and agree there is a difference.  But for me, it's subtle, and in the course of doing what I do in MSFS, it's just not relevant, fortunately.  And therefore much less the case at say a Gsync'd frame rate of 40.

***I'm talking about how I'm set up, not changing sliders/.opt edits to be able to maintain 55, or 45, etc:  LOD-O 300, LOD-T 400,. RS 130, all sliders at Ultra, 8xSSAA, 16xAF.

I understand what you're saying. 

787 HD at EKCH with 42 FPS is great performance in my book. I believe I would probably be at about the same. 

I'm not saying I'll get 55 FPS consistently everywhere, I was getting that at the certain airport. After all, I had to benchmark at the same place for all the settings. I'm fully aware the FPS fluctuates depending on the circumstances.

G-Sync really does help, there's a reason people are always mentioning it as a solution to people struggling with maintaining a stable frame rate. But then again, that's a wormhole. There are so many variants of it. There used to be only one type, the one with a built in hardware module in the monitor. That's the one I have, it's a 2016 monitor and outdated spec wise but still doing a great job. 

R9 5900X is a great CPU, but your 9900K is a legendary chip. Intel has always done well in flight sims, mainly due to the very high single core performance. If I'm not mistaken, the only one that's faster for single core is the 10900K.

Yep, the 3080 TI is basically a 3090 with half the VRAM. The 3090 wasn't that far ahead of 3080 to begin with, 5-10% depending on the program / game. The 3080 TI has caught up those last percentages. With regards to VRAM, I've seen 14000 MB before SU5, after that it was only around 6-7000 MB, but with WU6 they made adjustments (Pre-Cache) and the highest I'm getting now is about 12500 MB. But when I tested with a stock 3080, the performance was about the same with 9000 MB VRAM usage in the same area. The interesting thing is that I'm seeing higher VRAM usage with the 3090 in traditional games like the Division 2. It's up around 16000 MB.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Republic3D

[Noel 4,571]

1 minute ago, Republic3D said:

G-Sync really does help, there's a reason people are always mentioning it as a solution to people struggling with maintaining a stable frame rate. But then again, that's a wormhole. There are so many variants of it. There used to be only one type, the one with a built in hardware module in the monitor. That's the one I have, it's a 2016 monitor and outdated spec wise but still doing a great job. 

R9 5900X is a great CPU, but your 9900K is a legendary chip. Intel has always done well in flight sims, mainly due to the very high single core performance. If I'm not mistaken, the only one that's faster for single core is the 10900K.

Yep, the 3080 TI is basically a 3090 with half the VRAM. The 3090 wasn't that far ahead of 3080 to begin with, 5-10% depending on the program / game. The 3080 TI has caught up those last percentages. With regards to VRAM, I've seen 14000 MB before SU5, after that it was only around 6-7000 MB, but with WU6 they made adjustments (Pre-Cache) and the highest I'm getting now is about 12500 MB. But when I tested with a stock 3080, the performance was about the same. The interesting thing is that I'm seeing higher VRAM usage with the 3090 in traditional games like the Division 2. It's up around 16000 MB.

Well I'm glad for those who forked over the money for 3090 that it has some additional value to show for it, but as you well know it's subtle at best, at least in MSFS.  I was going to cough up for 3090 but between performance benchmarks, what happened w/ SU5, it seemed pretty clear the additional VRAM, not to mention nearly double the weight and size of the beast, made it a poor choice in terms of value.  MSFS does seems to show it's using VRAM to the extent it exists, so will show more being used when 24Gb is there v 12Gb.  Thusfar the max VRAM I'm seeing is 10.9, but that was a one-off scenario of maximum complexity.  My sense is 3080Ti is an optimal choice for MSFS if you can afford it.  Very fortunately MSFS scales to the hardware it's on amazingly well.

Yes G-Sync seems to be a very good thing and my next display will be G-Sync capable, though i'm not sure how to tell the difference between 'true' G-Sync and G-Sync Compatible.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Yes G-Sync seems to be a very good thing and my next display will be G-Sync capable, though i'm not sure how to tell the difference between 'true' G-Sync and G-Sync Compatible.

True g-sync has a hardware module.

G-sync ultimate and G-Sync. 

G-sync compatible doesn’t.:-

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/g-sync-monitors/specs/

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Ianrivaldosmith

[psolk 3,092]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

I just TO at EKCH in the 787-10 HD and at the gate frame rate is 42.  CPU load went to 87%, GPU 90%, and w/o a G-sync capable display there is no such thing as smooth, therefore I'm really limited to 30 since the only other option is 60.   I've used NCP's limiter to higher frame rates, say 40, and it does not compare favorably in terms of smooth, stutter-free animation to what happens w/ Vsync and presumably Gsync.  I'm not sure how R9 5900x compares w/ 9900K, but I know 3080Ti and 3090 are virtually identical--a while back I read one benchmark that showed 3080Ti outperformed 3090--but it was academic, meaningless in terms of real world performance difference, and most benchmarks since should make this clear.  So not sure where you're going to see 55 on the ground consistently***.  Once again, if smooth stutter-free is the goal then for me at the moment I'm limited to 30.  I've scrutinized the difference between vsync at 30 and 60, and agree there is a difference.  But for me, it's subtle, and in the course of doing what I do in MSFS, it's just not relevant, fortunately.  And therefore much less the case at say a Gsync'd frame rate of 40.

***I'm talking about how I'm set up, not changing sliders/.opt edits to be able to maintain 55, or 45, etc:  LOD-O 300, LOD-T 400,. RS 130, all sliders at Ultra, 8xSSAA, 16xAF.

I would say your performance is actually killing it.  Your system is performing really well and I think if/when you combine your system with g-sync and the higher fidelity add-on aircraft that are going to be even more demanding in terms of performance you'd be able to take full advantage of what your system is capable of on the high end while balancing it with fluidity on the lower end of the FPS spectrum as well but I know you have a nice monitor today as well and are extremely pleased with what you have so there is certainly no need for it.  Your system is probably what will be required to maintain 30FPS with the higher fidelity aircraft add-ons, full AI and detailed airports if you don't have g-sync anyway.  It's pretty much the system I would build today but with a 10K CPU b/c of what's cheap and available right now.  

Edited October 9, 2021 by psolk

[Bunchy 229]

7 hours ago, Malcolm Street said:

If you're going to fork out for a 3080Ti I'd stretch the extra for a 3090.

The reason is VRAM.  I went for a 3090 (65th birthday present to myself!) and find that in 4k around say Berlin or Vienna on Ultra settings or in VR (G2) I'm using as much as 16GB VRAM.  As graphics improve and DX12 comes in I'd expect this to rise further.  If you're going 4k it's a good piece of future-proofing.

Yes, it seems like a good option, it's just so blinking expensive!

[Lord Farringdon 535]

19 hours ago, steve310002 said:

Just a warning relating to a thread I started a couple of weeks back concerning OEM pre-built systems (as these are the easiest ways to get 3080s right now). I have a 3080 and a 10700kf.

Some posters say they get super high fps on the ground and I believe them but I think it's more complex than that and can inadvertently misleading to those considering parting with huge amounts of cash for a new GPU.

On my machine at a small city (e.g. Nice) 'non complex airport' in true 4K on ultra settings I get 45 to 48 fps with dips (not 65fps like the 3080ti owner but also less than I expect with my 3080 based on the reports of others). Meanwhile in Seattle I get only 30fps (maybe due to AI traffic and multiplayer but still a far cry from what I had expected)!  It really depends on the scenery near the aiport as well. Is it a city, is there heavy forestry, is it a desert etc.? This all impacts fps obviously so I think what would be super useful would be for everyone to agree on several airports depicting different scenarios as benchmarks. For example Area 51 is a good non complex fps test. Or KLAX or KJFK as a complex one. And then maybe Nice as an in between. Then it would be easier for us to compare scenarios with different GPUs and CPUs and see what the reality is with fps differences. Otherwise one persons non complex example is different to anothers. 

I just think a lot of people are misled thinking they will hit high fps in all senarios with a 3080 or maybe even a 3080ti. It really depends on the location with most setups as to what fps you will get and the type of system you have. Sounds obvious but it's really not.

Absolutely correct Steve. While I can understand all the concerns and outcomes that each of the posters are experiencing, without a standard to set them against they almost meaningless. Sorry, I am not trying belittle anyone or trivialise anyone's personal experience and comprehensive testing, just simply saying that I can give you many examples where my lowly RTX3060 has jammed at the back stop of 10FPS or has rocketed to 85FPS and unless we are talking about the same set of circumstances, it all becomes a bit meaningless. What I do know is that flying in a thunderstorm over downtown New York with all sliders set at Ultra and rendering at 100 left me in hurt street at 10-13 FPS. But I was still flying and not that badly either! That was a huge testament to Asobo! 

I have just bought a new monitor (TV) a 65inch Samsung with Free Sync (AMD's open source license) and am setting it up but have had a few problems. These were related to the Game mode on the TV and the fact I do not have a 2.1 cable connected to the HDMI 2.1 port of the TV.  I'm in Covid lock down at the moment but when I get to that cable...watch out! 

The RTX 3060 is 2.1 compatible and is all set to push out data at much higher speeds and with the TV enabled in Game mode VRR 120Hz it will receive that data through a Super UHD HDMI 2.1 cable and then we'll see what the 3060 has really got in its back pocket 🙂.

Meanwhile, in reference to the discussion on locking at 60 or 30FPS.  Is there a difference? Again that depends on the reference standard of which there is none. 30 FPS at 100 scaling or 60 FPS at 75 scaling? But there are certainly differences. Especially when viewing instrumentation in the VC which in 4k exhibits a noticeable clarity difference at 100 scaling but requires you to 'lean' in a little closer at 75 scaling. Fast jet low level flying over built up areas requires good FPS so one would think that 60 FPS or better still VRR would be the way to go. Meanwhile someone trucking along in heavy iron at FL370 is less likely to notice any difference even at 20 FPS. So again, is there a difference? Most certainly yes. Does it matter? Depends on what you are doing but for some it will, for others it wont matter and it wont even be noticed.   

If I understand correctly locking FPS doesn't give you better FPS. A better CPU and GPU will. Using V-Sync to lock FPS simply means your CPU and GPU don't have to work so hard to give you the selected FPS. If the visuals start getting tough along with AI and a LOD heavy built up area and airport, all in a raging hurricane then if your CPU/GPU cant handle it, your FPS is going down below the lock make no mistake about that. I'm not sure if MSFS is just V-Sync or adaptive V-sync but I know on my RTX 3060 I can set up adaptive V-Sync. Nvidea's Adaptive V-Sync fixes stuttering and screen tearing by unlocking the frame rate when below V-Sync cap, which reduces stuttering,  and then by locking the frame rate when performance improves thereby minimising screen tearing. So in a situation where your CPU /GPU combo is a little lacking, it may not keep up with your monitors refresh rate and screen tearing is the outcome, then locking at 30FPS might be a good option.  Otherwise as far as I can see, with an i9 and a 3090 combo, locked at 30 FPS it's like you just bought a Mustang and rather than take it to the track and exercising all that performance capability, you're driving it at city speed limits. I say remove the bridle and the saddle and let that Mustang run !!!   😁👍  

Terry

 

 

 

  

 

 

    

[Noel 4,571]

3 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Nvidea's Adaptive V-Sync fixes stuttering and screen tearing by unlocking the frame rate when below V-Sync cap, which reduces stuttering,  and then by locking the frame rate when performance improves thereby minimising screen tearing. So in a situation where your CPU /GPU combo is a little lacking, it may not keep up with your monitors refresh rate and screen tearing is the outcome, then locking at 30FPS might be a good option.  Otherwise as far as I can see, with an i9 and a 3090 combo, locked at 30 FPS it's like you just bought a Mustang and rather than take it to the track and exercising all that performance capability, you're driving it at city speed limits. I say remove the bridle and the saddle and let that Mustang run !!!   😁👍  

Terry it seems like you are saying Adaptive V-Sync obviates the need for G-Sync, or perhaps does essentially the same thing.  One can for example set Vsync to 60, and when frames drop below 60, Adaptive Vsync eliminates the otherwise inevitable stuttering that ensues when unable to maintain the minimum 60 or whatever Vsync frame lock you're using.  If I understood this correctly, have you compared the two?  Most would agree the goal no matter what the hardware is to have stutter-free performance at the greatest visual detail possible at the highest sustainable frame rate.   G-Sync and from what you're suggesting Adaptive V-sync address the sustainability problem.   OTOH, if what I think you're saying is true, one should be able to set Vsync to 120 for a 120Hz display, and yet Adaptive V-sync saves the day, which of course would be hard to fathom, verging on the miraculous.  As mentioned above there is currently no way to maintain frame rates of say 50 or 60 with the current hardware, including 3090, in complex planes in all conditions, especially at 4K or with LOD dialed beyond ultra.

[Republic3D 1,232]

Just a technical question, maybe someone knows. 

In MSFS it's only possible to lock at 30 or 60, not 45 or anything in between. 60 is whatever the max refresh rate of your monitor is, not necessarily 60 fps. 

Is there a way to lock between these numbers in the UserCfg.opt?

[steve310002 1,198]

4 hours ago, Republic3D said:

Is there a way to lock between these numbers in the UserCfg.opt?

Not sure this answers your question but you can set a precise refresh rate of your choosing in the Nvidia Control Panel in the MSFS settings.

[Republic3D 1,232]

11 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

Not sure this answers your question but you can set a precise refresh rate of your choosing in the Nvidia Control Panel in the MSFS settings.

I haven't tried that yet, but in theory it should be possible without enabling V-Sync at the same time right? 

Thanks for the suggestion!

[steve310002 1,198]

From what I understand it only caps the framerate and is independent of vsync. It's good also for controlling your GPU usage while MSFS updates and also during loading which for some reasons uses a lot of GPU and wastes electricity.

[Republic3D 1,232]

51 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

From what I understand it only caps the framerate and is independent of vsync. It's good also for controlling your GPU usage while MSFS updates and also during loading which for some reasons uses a lot of GPU and wastes electricity.

Absolutely!

I just capped it at 55 fps in NCP, and it worked perfectly! Thanks for the suggestion.

Now my GPU usage is down from 100% and fluctuating 84-94% with 130 res scale and all that. 😃

It's kind of ridiculous that the menu in MSFS wants to use 100% of my GPU and draws 400 Watts just because it has the hangar thing in the background. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Republic3D

[Noel 4,571]

To f/u on Lord Farrington's comments I tried setting Adaptive Vsync to ON in NCP, Vsync ON in MSFS set at 60.  While animation seems smooth w/ a variable frame rate between 32 and 54 or so (dim dusk light in rain at CYYC so not really sure yet) I had visible screen tearing when panning that I never see when Vsync ON in MSFS set to 30.   Is screen tearing solved w/ GSync displays?

[TheFamilyMan 281]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Is screen tearing solved w/ GSync displays?

Though I don't own one (though I am tempted), IIRC eliminating screen tearing at a variable rate FPS is the primary purpose of GSync tech. 

I've abandoned trying to run anything beyond vsync 30 with my 60 htz IPS panel.  I can see that higher FPS does somewhat enhance the experience, but with my panel, all my attempts to get my rtx 3080 ti at higher FPS leads to either occasional and noticeable stutters with any sort of vsync (in-game or driver), or tearing if not using vsync.

Edited October 11, 2021 by TheFamilyMan

[Noel 4,571]

Just now, TheFamilyMan said:

Though I don't own one (though I am tempted), IIRC eliminating screen tearing at a variable rate FPS is the primary purpose of GSync tech. 

I've abandoned trying to run anything beyond vsync 30 with my 60 htz IPS panel.  I can see that higher FPS does somewhat enhance the experience, but with my panel, all my attempts to get my rtx 3080 ti at higher FPS leads to occasional and noticeable (as in jarring) stutters.

That's really the case for me as I have become spoiled w/ LOD at 300, RS 130, all otherwise maxed out ultra:  at the gate and during taxi at CYYC (a rather pedestrian midsize town and modest airport in a rural area) in dense low clouds and rain we only saw 32fps.

The fundamental problem here is the closer you are to the ground at both departure and arrival airports the more you will appreciate the higher frame rate because you are moving fast relative to close objects during takeoff and landings, and taxiing to a lesser extent because the amount of motion per frame is larger, whereas up in the air when I can easily maintain 40-55 FPS with these settings in something like the 787-10 HD it doesn't matter at all: when you're looking for example at a building say from 2000' flying at a rate of speed of 180knots the distance that building moves on your display is measured in just a few pixels per frame at 30fps anyway, so you can't notice any difference.  It really needs to be the opposite:  down low you need high frames, up high less frames.