54 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

Is that really fair though?  I am on plenty of other forums such as MMO forums, where people will say "I hate how game X handles feature Y, wouldn't it be better if they went the same route as game Z?".  It makes sense and widens the discussion.

I don't think it should be shut down completely, but obviously if it adds nothing constructive to the discussion or is wildly off-topic it can be shut down by mods.

It all depends on context. Your example is fine. We have some protagonists who use it in a negative way plus the personal jibes which help no one. It was them who my warning was directed to. Not the vast majority who can discuss the alternative sims in a mature way. 👍

We try not to shut down topics except when they go way off topic. I’ll give someone a holiday before I lock one.

1 hour ago, strider1 said:

The ignore option does not really work when the same people derail every post, there would be very little to read🤪

Use the report feature and if they’re out of order they’ll be dealt with.

I think the reason for strongly supporting one franchise is twofold. One is because you are convinced that your choice is good and the right one and you don´t want to be proven wrong in your choices. The other is worry that your franchise of choice will not survive - due to the competition draining the resources that the userbase has to offer (time spent on the program, money spent for add-ons and expansions, sequels).

Thats why the argument "there is space for two simulators on my harddrive" is not really valid. There is enough space for a Porsche Taycan, a Lamborghini Huracan and a Ferrari Daytona in the street in front of my house, too. 😅

If someone would post "I personally like the scenery in simulator X a lot better because..." - that is a world of difference from saying "The scenery in simulator X is a lot better because..."

There are some rules to a civil and fair discussion and once people start making it personal - the point of that discussion is already moot because no one will budge from his point of view. Especially not on the internet where we all don´t know each other and I can claim that the sun is cold all day long without any repercussion at all.

 

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by Janov

Janov, I agree and disagree.
Over the years I think I have installed all available flight sims on my hard drive. Usually one at a time, taking time to learn them. This is ranging from FS 5.0 over Flight Unlimited I, II and III, some others I can't remember the name, coming back regularly to MSFS in its different itterations and now X-Plane since version 10, mostly because I switched to Linux.

In each of them I had invested an amount of money (too much with hind sight).

But whatever your investment, be it planes, scenery or plugins, in a couple of years they are not current anymore (except some hardware like flight controllers).
Carenado is a prime example, as they hardly update their fleet.
So for me the cost of switching is not that big.

There is no reason to bash one simulator over the other, they each have their merits.

And in a few years, they will have evolved anyway and the circle is round again.

51 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

Over the years I think I have installed all available flight sims on my hard drive. Usually one at a time, taking time to learn them. This is ranging from FS 5.0 over Flight Unlimited I, II and III, some others I can't remember the name

That is a good example, actually - how come we don´t have Flight Unlimited 15 right now? Because the franchise was not succesfull. Not enough users buying them to make continued development financially interesting - they shut down to never be seen again.

The Microsoft franchise (and X-Plane) are different, they have managed to retain enough users to make developing new and improved versions viable over the last decades.

But even the highly succesful Microsoft franchise had a solid brush with near death after Aces (FSX) was shut down...and was resurrected from the ashes in the form of MSFS (let´s not mention Flight). It is only natural that this is a constant lingering fear in those enjoying MSFS...like the suspicion in a couple that got back together after one cheated on the other one - the trust is gone 😉

But this is not exclusive to the Microsoft users, naturally us X-Plane fans were also worried at some point that "MSFS just does everything better!" - and will drain enough users to not allow Laminars increased team size to remain viable.

Hence the jealousy and spite for the "other" simulators - they are like contendors that try to vie away your tribe´s members...which you need to survive! 😉

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by Janov

I'm just happy as long as there is a decent simulator to use. I currently run P3D V4 and FSX-SE. I enjoy the higher fidelity aircraft addons like A2A, Milviz, etc. I had a couple of versions of Xplane in the past, during the FS9 days. I ran Xplane and FS 2002 and 2004 concurrently and each had things I liked that the other lacked. No MS based sim ever did HABU as authentically as Xplane. I was considering XP 11 now that I have an NVMe SSD and therefor dedicated SSD space but when I read about XP 12 in the works and saw screenshots and vids I decided to wait. But truly, if all but one sim died out I would use the survivor and make the best of it.

12 hours ago, Janov said:

Thats why the argument "there is space for two simulators on my harddrive" is not really valid.

Says who? You have already been spotted posting in MSFS forums. Multiple times! The black pot calling the kettle black 😂

13 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It all depends on context. Your example is fine. We have some protagonists who use it in a negative way plus the personal jibes which help no one. It was them who my warning was directed to. Not the vast majority who can discuss the alternative sims in a mature way. 👍

We try not to shut down topics except when they go way off topic. I’ll give someone a holiday before I lock one.

 

1 hour ago, Greazer said:

Says who? You have already been spotted posting in MSFS forums. Multiple times! The black pot calling the kettle black 😂

So? 

1 hour ago, Greazer said:

Says who? You have already been spotted posting in MSFS forums. Multiple times! The black pot calling the kettle black 😂

Says me! 😅

I consider it my fault to discuss things MSFS and X-Plane without first-hand knowledge of MSFS. I have not installed a single bit of it on any storage device I own.

And - as much as it may surprise you - one does get posting priviliges in the MSFS forum (and to enhance your knowledge: In every other forum on avsim as well) withouth providing proof of purchase for the discussed program 😉

And while we are talking: You keep mentioning that Laminar Research must fix it´s buggy Vulkan implementation for X-Plane 11. In almost all cases of Device Loss errors these can be traced back to user error in software and hardware configuration. I would phrase it carefully and say that given the sophistication level of your posting history it may prove helpful if you inquire into solving that on your side...possibly with the help of someone knowledgable in the field of technology, computers, flightsimulation and logic.

It may save you and us a lot of future frustration.

2 hours ago, Janov said:

I consider it my fault to discuss things MSFS and X-Plane without first-hand knowledge of MSFS. I have not installed a single bit of it on any storage device I own.

I have an active XP11 install, so there's that. Guess Greazer has one too.

2 hours ago, Janov said:

possibly with the help of someone knowledgable in the field of technology, computers, flightsimulation and logic.

Do you happen to know such a person?

1 hour ago, rka said:

Do you happen to know such a person?

Pretty much everyone frequenting flightsimulation forums...well maybe except for a few.😅

The thing is that Greazer keeps repeating that X-Plane is buggy and frequently crashing due to device loss errors. I have helped many folks on the "other" X-Plane forum with similar problems and it always boiled down to overclocking/hardware faults, outdated drivers or third-party code or assets running.

I am not aware of a single case where the device loss error could not be attributed to one of those three reasons...which are pretty much outside LR´s control and within the users responsibility, I think.

So instead of trying to fix the problem he keeps repeating it here, which I think is not fair. It is like those folks on the MSFS forums complaining about stutters and crashes-to-desktop when we all know that those problems were fixed by Asobo quite a while ago.

Cheers, Jan

 

Edited December 12, 20214 yr by Janov

2 hours ago, Janov said:

I am not aware of a single case where the device loss error could not be attributed to one of those three reasons...which are pretty much outside LR´s control and within the users responsibility, I think.

Let's not get to deep into this. Let me just say this: The general consensus that each and every issue is a user side issue is one of the main reasons that drove me away from the org forums. It was a beta and it crashed. They released several follow up betas and the crashes stopped. That's what we know here.

2 hours ago, Janov said:

I am not aware of a single case where the device loss error could not be attributed to one of those three reasons...

LR are, its in the 11.55 release notes:

https://www.x-plane.com/kb/x-plane-11-55-release-notes/

Known bugs

 

• XPD-10830 Device loss crash when using Vulkan.

This individual has been falsely blaming paying customers since day 1 but was in fact wrong all along.

48 minutes ago, Greazer said:

This individual has been falsely blaming paying customers since day 1 but was in fact wrong all along.

Another personal comment, the second in this thread only since @Ray Proudfoot threat.

And still the abomination AKA the pinned "x-plane users are hostile" topic is still in place.

Edited December 12, 20214 yr by mtaxp