With so many snowy landings this winter this would be a very cool thing to model IMO.  I am happy to see XP taking a stab at it, and I see someone entered it as a wish item here if you care to support the idea--unfortunately over a year ago and only 14 votes.  https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/friction-on-contaminated-surfaces-slippery-runways/348489

 

Upvoted !

I'm afraid that we already have very slippery behavior during takeoff and landing, especially with little crosswind conditions regardless of any season.

They need to fix the actual friction issue first. But for sure we gonna find people believing that is ok now.

The way my FBWA320 slams to the left on every landing, I kinda simulate that now  🙂

I'd like to see them fix runways being covered in snow whenever there is snow cover in the area before they make contaminated runways slippery, otherwise we'll have international airports with unrealistically bad runways conditions for chunks of the winter.

Beyond that though I agree.

5 hours ago, LRBS said:

I'm afraid that we already have very slippery behavior during takeoff and landing, especially with little crosswind conditions regardless of any season.

They need to fix the actual friction issue first. But for sure we gonna find people believing that is ok now.

I was just going to post a similar message like this, but this is spot on

We need to have the ability to control the acft properly, before we begin to degrade friction on runways/taxiways.

6 hours ago, LRBS said:

I'm afraid that we already have very slippery behavior during takeoff and landing, especially with little crosswind conditions regardless of any season.

They need to fix the actual friction issue first. But for sure we gonna find people believing that is ok now.

Indeed. There is already precious little tarmac friction in FS2020 - and so little weathervane stability on the ground that a sizeable aircraft deviates in yaw as though it was a paper aeroplane with as little as 1.5 knots of cross wind. A 5 knot crosswind should hardly disturb the lightest GA aircraft and have virtually zero effect on a Caravan. And that is partly why Asobo has been forced to create ridiculously over-powered ground steering in order to overcome it. Watch the extreme jerky control of even real world Airbus and Boeing pilots in various YT videos as they grapple with the ridiculous directional instability on their take off runs.

This is completely wrong. While snow and ice modelling would be nice, for goodness sake Asobo or anyone with access to it, fix the LACK of friction first.

Actually, they tamed the friction model, and overall ground physics limitation with throttled wind on ground radial / normal components.

While taxiing, maneuvering on ground the normal wind component is considerably reduced from it's RL value up to a given speed, abve which it starts growing towards the real values. Also there is a kind of trigger speed for the transition from some sort of infinite friction.

4 hours ago, jcomm said:

Actually, they tamed the friction model, and overall ground physics limitation with throttled wind on ground radial / normal components.

While taxiing, maneuvering on ground the normal wind component is considerably reduced from it's RL value up to a given speed, abve which it starts growing towards the real values. Also there is a kind of trigger speed for the transition from some sort of infinite friction.

"While taxiing, maneuvering on ground the normal wind component is considerably reduced from it's RL value up to a given speed, abve which it starts growing towards the real values."

Do you actually know where is that speed adjustment listed that it starts "growing" towards real values?

 

 

"Also there is a kind of trigger speed for the transition from some sort of infinite friction."

Again, please, where is that speed listed for the transition?

 

If you know where these adjustments can be made it would be very easy to fix them.

 

Thank you!

2 minutes ago, LRBS said:

"While taxiing, maneuvering on ground the normal wind component is considerably reduced from it's RL value up to a given speed, abve which it starts growing towards the real values."

Do you actually know where is that speed adjustment listed that it starts "growing" towards real values?

 

 

"Also there is a kind of trigger speed for the transition from some sort of infinite friction."

Again, please, where is that speed listed for the transition?

 

If you know where these adjustments can be made it would be very easy to fix them.

 

Thank you!

They're hardcoded at present, AFAIK.

You can check them by going Dev mode and displaying one of the data screens - I don't recall exactly which one now.

You will have the X / Y wind components, and either by using RWW or a preset where you create a strong x-wind, you'll notice the radial component growing as you start moving faster.

Thank you @jcomm!

It's interesting how Mr. Robert Young was able to do some adjustments to a certain degree related to this unrealistic directional control or friction, the most important aspect of this "simulation" while these guys at ASOBO don't seem to understand or willing to fix it. You would think that this should be the highest priority on their list, especially when this is a "flight simulator" by definition.

When you compare with other products (simulators) this MSFS2020 aircraft behavior is so far off from anything else on the market. When at only 5 KTS crosswind on t.o. and landing people have issues related to maintaining centerline it is obvious that there is a problem.

It is ridiculous and unacceptable.

5 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Thank you @jcomm!

It's interesting how Mr. Robert Young was able to do some adjustments to a certain degree related to this unrealistic directional control or friction, the most important aspect of this "simulation" while these guys at ASOBO don't seem to understand or willing to fix it. You would think that this should be the highest priority on their list, especially when this is a "flight simulator" by definition.

When you compare with other products (simulators) this MSFS2020 aircraft behavior is so far off from anything else on the market. When at only 5 KTS crosswind on t.o. and landing people have issues related to maintaining centerline it is obvious that there is a problem.

It is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I don't have those problems flying 4 different aircraft. I use the same crosswind techniques I use in real life flying. 

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

13 hours ago, LRBS said:

I'm afraid that we already have very slippery behavior during takeoff and landing

I guess this isn't perceived when flying heavy airliners?  Doesn't matter how I land and NEVER have any kind of slipperiness, so this comment is completely foreign to me, or it's so subtle it's lost on me.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't have those problems flying 4 different aircraft. I use the same crosswind techniques I use in real life flying. 

With respect I just can't get my head around that statement. In 30 years of flying I never saw any need to adjust more than a miniscule amount for a cross wind that was less than 5 knots on any runway or grass airfield. And with a normally aspirated 2/4 seat GA with a nose wheel very little p factor compensation either. In Fs2020 I'm getting a distinct weather vaning into wind with even a TINY cross wind component of 1.5 knots. This is utterly crazy.

Of course friction and weather vaning are 2 distinct elements. 

4 hours ago, Noel said:

I guess this isn't perceived when flying heavy airliners?  Doesn't matter how I land and NEVER have any kind of slipperiness, so this comment is completely foreign to me, or it's so subtle it's lost on me.

I agree with you 100% on that statement. One of the reasons is related to moments of inertia.