Some crack isn't the worst thing..🤣🤗

But to mutch..

cheers 😉

The answer to both questions is most likely, "yes". 😎

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

FSHub has been mentioned. Have you tried that?

FSHub is far from perfect and even farther away from Radar Control quality. FSHub is still under development, though, and at the moment is quite usable. Better than the built-in ATC. I bought FSHud as it is not dependent on FSUIPC, I am just trying to keep my FS2020 installation as "clean" as possible. Just my $0.02 for what it is worth 🙂 

I purchased PF3 about 7 years ago, for around $55 Been using it on every flight since then, most flights with a VA. Cost per day is too small to calculate. Best investment I ever made, and works great in MSFS. ATC everywhere and any time I want to fly. https://www.oncourse-software.co.uk/pf3_details.htm

Edited August 6, 20223 yr by Bobsk8

32 minutes ago, hvw said:

FSHub is far from perfect and even farther away from Radar Control quality. FSHub is still under development, though, and at the moment is quite usable. Better than the built-in ATC. I bought FSHud as it is not dependent on FSUIPC, I am just trying to keep my FS2020 installation as "clean" as possible. Just my $0.02 for what it is worth 🙂 

Reinstall P3D for your IFR flights. Keep MSFS for the sightseeing. 😉

Best of both worlds.

25 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Reinstall P3D for your IFR flights. Keep MSFS for the sightseeing. 😉

Best of both worlds.

Gee, I must be doing something wrong. I have been flying IFR flights in MSFS since it was release, probably well over 2,000 flights by now almost all with my VA, on several different aircraft. Going back to P3D. for me, is like returning to DOS 3.1. 

Edited August 6, 20223 yr by Bobsk8

31 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Reinstall P3D for your IFR flights. Keep MSFS for the sightseeing.

Ray, MSFS2020 is perfect for IFR-flying, I never fly under VFR-rules in MSFS2020 and until recently I did so very well without any ATC. But I got curious, tried various ATC programs and then decided to go with FSHub. As said, far, very far, from perfect, but yet it wasn't that bad to even think about returning to P3D or FSX 🙂 

When I decided to stick to MSFS2020, two years ago, I removed P3D and its add-ons from my PC. Yes, Radar Contact as well. The only thing, with respect to the Radar Contact removal, I regret is, that with that action I also deleted RC's manual which was a very comprehensive guide to ATC and its explanations on centers, FIRs etc etc. 

As you know, I have been a simmer since 1986 and, although MSFS2020 has its shortcomings I find it the best flight sim so far. Just my opinion, others may and will have different thoughts To each their own 🙂 .,

37 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Reinstall P3D for your IFR flights. Keep MSFS for the sightseeing. 😉

Best of both worlds.

All FAA approved sims I ever tried for instrument flying didn’t feature ATC lol  

13 hours ago, sunbeam60 said:

Am I missing something obvious here? It seems to be MSFS is quite confused about how to machine read (no doubt) the AIRAC to keep the approach plate that includes INS VOR overflight.

 

 

Yes you are missing something obvious! Don’t use default ATC. Lol I have never used default ATC in any sim including P3D, XP, FSX. Simple reason they not good .

Try real life controller VTSIM, Pilot Edge or other network 

 

22 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Gee, I must be doing something wrong. I have been flying IFR flights in MSFS since it was release, probably well over 2,000 flights by now almost all with my VA, on several different aircraft. Going back to P3D. for me, is like returning to DOS 3.1. 

I knew this was coming so don’t know why I bothered. There was frustration that RC4 couldn’t be used in MSFS so that’s why I suggested P3D be used. Heresy apparently. 🤣

8 minutes ago, hvw said:

Ray, MSFS2020 is perfect for IFR-flying, I never fly under VFR-rules in MSFS2020 and until recently I did so very well without any ATC. But I got curious, tried various ATC programs and then decided to go with FSHub. As said, far, very far, from perfect, but yet it wasn't that bad to even think about returning to P3D or FSX 🙂 

When I decided to stick to MSFS2020, two years ago, I removed P3D and its add-ons from my PC. Yes, Radar Contact as well. The only thing, with respect to the Radar Contact removal, I regret is, that with that action I also deleted RC's manual which was a very comprehensive guide to ATC and its explanations on centers, FIRs etc etc. 

As you know, I have been a simmer since 1986 and, although MSFS2020 has its shortcomings I find it the best flight sim so far. Just my opinion, others may and will have different thoughts To each their own 🙂 .,

Hans, I couldn’t cope with the continuous forced updates however prettier the scenery looks. None of the aircraft I fly are available for MSFS. It would be a massive backward step for me.

I don’t know how you can compare FSX to P3D v5. There’s 14 years between them.

To each their own of course.

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There are already third party ATC programs for MSFS. Aren’t those enough?

He's absolutely right. Yes, it SHOULD be expected now since this is 2022 not 1982. Just like I expect my Tesla to be more technologically progressed than the Oldsmobile I drove in college, or my iPhone to be more progressed than my Blackberry I had in 2003.

Also, I'm not sure I buy the elite trigonometry / ATC expert argument. Trigonometry, while, very challenging is NOT advanced math and its taught to every 15 - 16 year old high school student as a progression from Algebra in sophomore and junior years. Heck, I know a few teenagers in my subdivision who are in AP Math in high school who would be HAPPY to help for $20 an hour. And as far as ATC skills, are we saying that there is no one with advanced ATC knowledge right here at Avsim alone? (raises hand). So no, trig and ATC skills are not hard to find at all.

Logic dictates that if AsoboSoft can figure out the math behind the fluid dynamics required to portray the flight surfaces of a Cessna 172 in 3-dimensional space (fluid dynamics - will reduce a grown man to a quivering, crying, child) surely they can figure out the math behind ATC to not think that FL330 is an appropriate approach altitude to an airport 20 miles away? Heck, that's not even math, it's logic (a simple IF, THEN, AND, OR Boolean operator!) Two years since release and you must contact ground control to connect a jetway? Does Asobosoft need a trig-ATC expert to tell them that's incorrect? To me it's not a matter of lack of skills, it's a matter of lack of will.

Flight Simulator is FORTY (40) years old and at this rate my grandchildren will still be told to climb and maintain 12,000 by MSFS approach control for Newark Airport!

Oh well, thank goodness for PF3. It's not perfect but delivers the best overall experience I've seen / heard thus far.

Regards,

Mike T.

Amazing how in 24 replies the only one that tries to address the OP's question is mine. The rest are all useless discussion about which ATC is best like dozens of other threads before. 

Easy to understand why some threads are closed with "the thread has ran it's course". 😔

2 minutes ago, Mike T said:

Also, I'm not sure I buy the elite trigonometry / ATC expert argument. Trigonometry, while, very challenging is NOT advanced math and its taught to every 15 - 16 year old high school student as a progression from Algebra in sophomore and junior years. Heck, I know a few teenagers in my subdivision who are in AP Math in high school who would be HAPPY to help for $20 an hour. And as far as ATC skills, are we saying that there is no one with advanced ATC knowledge right here at Avsim alone? (raises hand). So no, trig and ATC skills are not hard to find at all.

Years of being involved in flight sim suggests otherwise. There have been remarkably few third party ATC programs in the 27 years I’ve been using the original Microsoft Flight Sim and P3D.

If it’s as easy to write the code to emulate ATC as you suggest why haven’t those clever people at Asobo done it? From what I can see it’s more or less a copy and paste from FSX.

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’ll only ever use MSFS for fun flying. My serious flying will remain with P3D where Radar Contact will always be my first choice.

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Years of being involved in flight sim suggests otherwise. There have been remarkably few third party ATC programs in the 27 years I’ve been using the original Microsoft Flight Sim and P3D.

If it’s as easy to write the code to emulate ATC as you suggest why haven’t those clever people at Asobo done it? From what I can see it’s more or less a copy and paste from FSX.

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’ll only ever use MSFS for fun flying. My serious flying will remain with P3D where Radar Contact will always be my first choice.

I met and had dinner with the developer of RC4 many years ago in Atlanta. We had some lengthy discussions over dinner, and there was an ATC controller also at our table. It was a great program back in the day, but that day was over 2 decades ago. In terms of software development, that is ancient history. In the same way, P3D is based on another piece of software that was first published in around 40 years ago. What are we going to talk about next...."Is the floppy disk still relevant  today?"  😉

Edited August 6, 20223 yr by Bobsk8

36 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I couldn’t cope with the continuous forced updates

I couldn't agree more. A royal PITA that is, but I more or less got used to it. But let's not deviate from the subject of this thread too much. 🙂 Yes, MSFS2020's ATC sucks big time 🙂