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sunbeam60

Is MSFS ATC smoking crack or am I doing something wrong?

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Hi,

(Supporting screen shots, flight plans etc. here: https://imgur.com/a/iSoJzIF)

I was doing a quick flight from Edinburgh to Inverness under IFR.

I had the following flight-plan: EGPH/24 GRIC3C GRICE DCT INBAS N560 DAVOT EGPE/INS.I23 (please see imgur link for illustrations). This was planned via SimBrief/Navigraph, exported to .pln and loaded in MSFS.

That is to say that I was coming from the south on the N560, intending to fly over the INS VOR, then following the 41 radial out to D8.5, where I do a right-hand turn to line up with the IDX LOC and GS.

As I approach from the south on the N560, ATC recognises me and says "Expect ILS runway 23" - as specified in the flight plan, so to be expected - "via INS 40 radial, 10 DME arc. Cleared to INS.".

Here I'm getting confused. "INS 40 radial" is sort of right - I was expected 41st radial, but ok. Much more confusing is the "10 DME arc" instruction as that would put me on the ADN or BONBY transition.

In addition, MSFS ATC insists on keeping me at 5000'. Now, 2500' I could understand - if it had gotten confused about which transition I was taking - but I can't find any transitions that start at 5000'.

Am I missing something obvious here? It seems to be MSFS is quite confused about how to machine read (no doubt) the AIRAC to keep the approach plate that includes INS VOR overflight.

 

 

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2 hours ago, sunbeam60 said:

Hi,

(Supporting screen shots, flight plans etc. here: https://imgur.com/a/iSoJzIF)

I was doing a quick flight from Edinburgh to Inverness under IFR.

I had the following flight-plan: EGPH/24 GRIC3C GRICE DCT INBAS N560 DAVOT EGPE/INS.I23 (please see imgur link for illustrations). This was planned via SimBrief/Navigraph, exported to .pln and loaded in MSFS.

That is to say that I was coming from the south on the N560, intending to fly over the INS VOR, then following the 41 radial out to D8.5, where I do a right-hand turn to line up with the IDX LOC and GS.

As I approach from the south on the N560, ATC recognises me and says "Expect ILS runway 23" - as specified in the flight plan, so to be expected - "via INS 40 radial, 10 DME arc. Cleared to INS.".

Here I'm getting confused. "INS 40 radial" is sort of right - I was expected 41st radial, but ok. Much more confusing is the "10 DME arc" instruction as that would put me on the ADN or BONBY transition.

In addition, MSFS ATC insists on keeping me at 5000'. Now, 2500' I could understand - if it had gotten confused about which transition I was taking - but I can't find any transitions that start at 5000'.

Am I missing something obvious here? It seems to be MSFS is quite confused about how to machine read (no doubt) the AIRAC to keep the approach plate that includes INS VOR overflight.

 

 

MSFS ATC is pretty much worthless in my opinion, that is why I use a payware ATC program, and have for many years. 


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Bob Cardone         MSFS 2020 , Fenix A320, Milviz C 310 , Kodiak , PMDG DC6,   Carenado Seminole,  Mooney, JF Arrow, Simple Traffic  

TrackIR   Avliasoft EFB2    ATC  by PF3    FlyVirtual.net  CLX PC

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

MSFS ATC is pretty much worthless in my opinion, that is why I use a payware ATC program, and have for many years. 

^^^^^ This

though I was excited when this sim was pending release as it promoted these items specifically, I have come to realize for full enjoyment I have had to payware:

  • aircraft
  • navigation data
  • ATC
  • airports

CPU: Core i5-6600K 4 core (3.5GHz) - overclock to 4.3 | RAM: (1066 MHz) 16GB
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3 hours ago, sunbeam60 said:

Hi,

(Supporting screen shots, flight plans etc. here: https://imgur.com/a/iSoJzIF)

I was doing a quick flight from Edinburgh to Inverness under IFR.

I had the following flight-plan: EGPH/24 GRIC3C GRICE DCT INBAS N560 DAVOT EGPE/INS.I23 (please see imgur link for illustrations). This was planned via SimBrief/Navigraph, exported to .pln and loaded in MSFS.

That is to say that I was coming from the south on the N560, intending to fly over the INS VOR, then following the 41 radial out to D8.5, where I do a right-hand turn to line up with the IDX LOC and GS.

As I approach from the south on the N560, ATC recognises me and says "Expect ILS runway 23" - as specified in the flight plan, so to be expected - "via INS 40 radial, 10 DME arc. Cleared to INS.".

Here I'm getting confused. "INS 40 radial" is sort of right - I was expected 41st radial, but ok. Much more confusing is the "10 DME arc" instruction as that would put me on the ADN or BONBY transition.

In addition, MSFS ATC insists on keeping me at 5000'. Now, 2500' I could understand - if it had gotten confused about which transition I was taking - but I can't find any transitions that start at 5000'.

Am I missing something obvious here? It seems to be MSFS is quite confused about how to machine read (no doubt) the AIRAC to keep the approach plate that includes INS VOR overflight.

 

 

According to the chart, the MSA for INS VOR is 5000ft when coming from southwest. So I don't think the ATC is wrong there. The 40 radial is strange though, do you have updated Navigraph AIRAC in the sim?

Also, did you request the transition you wanted from ATC? If you didn't he assigns you the one he wants which may be different from what you are expecting.

Edited by Alvega

Alvega

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Welcome to MSFS ATC.

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  MaVe Creations - Free AI sounds - Giving your airports more atmosphere!

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18 minutes ago, MaVe64 said:

Welcome to MSFS ATC.

Name a default ATC in any sim that was actually any good? This is why many users that take this serious use payware ATC or use free online ATC like Vatsim, IVAO, or payware Piolet Edge etc.

Edited by jbdbow1970
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5 minutes ago, jbdbow1970 said:

Name a default ATC in any sim that was actually any good? This is why many users that take this serious use payware ATC or use online ATC like Vatsim, IVAO, Piolet Edge etc.

Yes, true. I wasn't trashing MSFS, just pointing out that this is the current state of default ATC. Lets hope it gets to the same level the rest of the sim is at, soon.

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www.mavecreations.weebly.com

 

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41 minutes ago, MaVe64 said:

Yes, true. I wasn't trashing MSFS, just pointing out that this is the current state of default ATC. Lets hope it gets to the same level the rest of the sim is at, soon.

If history is anything to go by it won’t happen. In all the iterations of the original Microsoft Flight Sim it remained poor and LM never touched it in P3D over five iterations. Can’t speak for X-Plane as I’ve never used it.

It remains the most complex area of flight sim requiring trigonometry skills that very few possess. Hence why a 16 year-old Radar Contact for FSX, P3D and also X-Plane remains in use to this day. Sadly, it’s unlikely ever to be available for MSFS.

It’s a forlorn hope that the default ATC will improve.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Hence why a 16 year-old Radar Contact for FSX, P3D and also X-Plane remains in use to this day. Sadly, it’s unlikely ever to be available for MSFS.

Wouldn't it be great if a Radar Contact kind of ATC application would become available for MSFS2020? One would think that there should be talent enough amongst developers to come up with such an application. Yes, I know, wishful thinking.


Kind regards,
Hans van WIjhe

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4 minutes ago, hvw said:

Wouldn't it be great if a Radar Contact kind of ATC application would become available for MSFS2020? One would think that there should be talent enough amongst developers to come up with such an application. Yes, I know, wishful thinking.

Very wishful thinking. The source code for RC4 has been lost. It was written in Visual Basic by John Dekker. It required the input from a superb mathematician plus two AT Controllers - FAA and ICAO trained. That kind of skill doesn’t grow on trees sadly.

There are alternatives out there but RC4 remains one of the primary reasons I could not drop P3D.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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31 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If history is anything to go by it won’t happen.

A lot has changed and we have a different set of individuals in charge. MSFS is doing a lot of things different from what we came to expect from the ACES team. The sim has its own marketplace and they're outsourcing a ton of work to 3pds and even buying some outright. I'd say expect the unexpected with Jorg at the helm.

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i5 11600K. 32 GB RAM. 1TB SATA SSD. 3TB HDD. RTX 3070 Ti.

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15 minutes ago, Krakin said:

A lot has changed and we have a different set of individuals in charge. MSFS is doing a lot of things different from what we came to expect from the ACES team. The sim has its own marketplace and they're outsourcing a ton of work to 3pds and even buying some outright. I'd say expect the unexpected with Jorg at the helm.

There are already third party ATC programs for MSFS. Aren’t those enough?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There are already third party ATC programs for MSFS. Aren’t those enough?

An included, usable ATC would likely for many if not most people be preferable to something that you have to pay extra for, need to do additional maintenance like updating, troubleshooting in case of issues and so on.

Adding to that, a usable ATC is perfectly doable and like you mentioned yourself has been done 16 years ago already, proving it's doable.

Also MSFS IMHO has the highest probability of once ending up with a usable, included ATC, for a number of reasons. And if not, it's still in good company.

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7 hours ago, Mike S KPDX said:

^^^^^ This

though I was excited when this sim was pending release as it promoted these items specifically, I have come to realize for full enjoyment I have had to payware:

  • aircraft
  • navigation data
  • ATC
  • airports

Alas, before it's release I said that I was not going to have all of the addons that I had for past sims. I didn't want the maintenance and hassle. Well, how did that work out - not so good. It's OK though. I'm happy with the addons that I use. My most recent is Volanta which is much nicer than I expected it to be.

As far as ATC goes, I bought and returned FSHud but followed its development. I bought it again and, while it still needs work, the developers are on top of things and very responsive. It also controls AI which is a "must have" for me.

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Rick Abshier

5900X | RTX3080 | 32 GB@3600 | India Pale Ale

 

 

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23 minutes ago, rka said:

An included, usable ATC would likely for many if not most people be preferable to something that you have to pay extra for, need to do additional maintenance like updating, troubleshooting in case of issues and so on.

You're suggesting the supplied ATC is not usable. In that case, raise a ticket with the issues you have with it. If Asobo are serious about ATC they'll address them.

24 minutes ago, rka said:

Adding to that, a usable ATC is perfectly doable and like you mentioned yourself has been done 16 years ago already, proving it's doable.

Only if you have the people with the right skills. The chap who worked on the trig for RC4 was brilliant. Then you need access to real-world AT controllers for all the correct procedures and instructions. How many of those are in the MSFS community?

FSHub has been mentioned. Have you tried that?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.0Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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