Dear all,

I am trying to find a way to use VR that makes it actually agreeable to fly VR. At the moment, my impression is that other than main controls, there is no easy way to manage the more complex actions in the cockpit, such as setting AP, adjusting engine controls, plane startup, frequencies adjustments, managing FMC etc without "typing blind" or having to do some counter-inuitive manipulations with VR handsets.

Are there any solutions for this (including different VR headsets)? I am perfectly content not to use VR for the moment, as apart from the eye-candy, the current use of VR simply does not do for me what I would need to be ably to fly as if sitting in a cockpit.

Many thanks

I use a mouse for all these interactions you speak of and it is very acceptable.

How you are currently trying to manage the more complex actions? It is not quite clear from your description of the problem.

Although a bit tedious the mouse in VR works just fine, I have a tray on my lap and use the mouse on that.

For some controls I have button binds, muscle memory works here to find them "blind" with the HMD on, never been an issue and I have a fair few controls setup this way.

4 hours ago, JacquesBrel said:

How you are currently trying to manage the more complex actions? It is not quite clear from your description of the problem.

Mostly with mouse, but even with the reworked functionality of the mouse (remember that it would not work at all at some point?) I find VR flying painful, particularly if compared to pancake with hotas and/or yoke-throttle set-up.

Reactions here so far confirm my assessment which is that VR is nice for immersion moments but that actual full cockpit interaction during busy sections of the flight needs to be in pancake. The only really strong point of VR is the seamless looking around capability - but even that can be done with middle mouse button panning in pancake. I've mostly stopped using my headset at this point I have to admit.

Each to their own, I love looking around the cockpit and flicking switches, doing stuff on the Garmin all in VR. I find it more of a chore to do it in pancake mode!

Have you considered getting a HOTAS? The nature of their design is that the pilot can use all buttons and dials and switches without looking.

I use a Virpil HOTAS for maybe 75% of my cockpit interactions, the rest with mouse.
https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-mongoost-50cm3-throttle.html
With my setup I can handle most of the "busy" parts of the flights on the HOTAS, and I mostly use the mouse for powering up and shutting down and operating the FMC.

You could also look into voice attack. It is only $10 US and you can then do anything that you can do with the keyboard using voice commands. Takes a bit of time to get it set up, but it sure frees up your hands while flying.

I'm hoping this is soon available for MSFS https://pointctrl.com/

 

I love my Behringer X-Touch mini along with Spad.Next.  It has 8 rotaries and a bunch of buttons (which I don't use, because I just click the buttons on the screen with my mouse).  I have the rotaries mapped to things like Nav radio / Com radio, MFD, PFD, range on PFD, Altitude Select, Barometer and Heading bug.  It takes a little bit of practice to get used to finding the right rotary button, but I can manage everything I need with it.

On 10/10/2022 at 8:25 AM, MarcG said:

Each to their own, I love looking around the cockpit and flicking switches, doing stuff on the Garmin all in VR. I find it more of a chore to do it in pancake mode!

This is exactly how I feel too.  

Being in VR I want to experience the aircraft and it's controls / switches / avionics etc... just as they are IRL.  So using the mouse to interact with everything is my go to.  It makes flying each plane a unique experience.   I don't even use the switches on my alpha / bravo.  Sometimes I'll use the autopilot panel, but that's about it.

When I used to fly in pancake mode, I tried binding EVERYTHING to my alpha and bravo and would often find myself frustrated that something wouldn't work the way I wanted it to.  

On 10/10/2022 at 1:04 PM, Gumbodadfs said:

Mostly with mouse, but even with the reworked functionality of the mouse (remember that it would not work at all at some point?) I find VR flying painful, particularly if compared to pancake with hotas and/or yoke-throttle set-up.

Reactions here so far confirm my assessment which is that VR is nice for immersion moments but that actual full cockpit interaction during busy sections of the flight needs to be in pancake. The only really strong point of VR is the seamless looking around capability - but even that can be done with middle mouse button panning in pancake. I've mostly stopped using my headset at this point I have to admit.

The tediousness of controlling these things with the mouse is dependent on the airplane you fly. In the default aircrafts it's ok(ish), in the Fenix a320 and the PMDG 737 it works great.

Chances are we'll get hand-tracking someday.

17 minutes ago, Grindathotte said:

Chances are we'll get hand-tracking someday.

We already have... OpenXR Toolkit is capable of hand tracking if your headset supports it, or you have a Magic Leap controller.

I only wish the hand models were more natural.

 

I have a ton of peripherals that I can use blindly, I fly 95% of the time in VR (G2).

I have more buttons and rotaries than I use, but that way I can more easily remember which one it is I want to use. So for instance HDG dialing I do with my Saitek panel which is in front, and ALT and VS with the Bravo on my left. If I would do that all with the X Touch Mini I always have to count which rotary my hands are on.

I could use light switches on my Alpha or Bravo but cannot find the right button blindly, there are too many in a row. Could use only the outer ones for easier identification though.

I also often press buttons in the cockpit with the mouse (overhead panel PMDG 737, fuel selector switches, light switches).

Programming the buttons I do in SPAD.next or in the sim itself, just what is most convenient for me.

Dialing rotaries in the sim with the mouse is a PITA, so I use programmed hardware rotaries for that mostly.

I use:

Saitek Radio panel (radio tuning, FMS outer and inner knob)

Saitek Multipanel (HDG dialing)

Bravo rotaries for mode selecting VS ALT or HDG (will program SPAD.next to call out audibly which mode is selected!), GEAR, FLAPS and AXIS obviously

Alpha for yoke (still struggling with optimal sensitivy curve for elevator)(sometimes MAGNETOS, STARTER switch)

Behringer x Touch Mini (FMS functions like ZOOM, COURSE dialing, ALT tuning 1000 and 100's, will do light dimming  with the slider in the Hjet as I saw on YT)(also: if place in vertical orientation I use with same layout for the 6 buttons on the Garmin 1000Nxi Direct To, FPL ENT etc)(plan is to program the slider as the speedbrake in some planes)

Knobster (just bought it: a delight to work the FMS inner and outer knob and push of course. Also use it as ENT button.)

Virpil stick (as stick of course, but also VR/2D mode switching, panning, resetting center VR position, choose CAMERA VIEWS, parking brake, DISCORD MIC switch)

VIRPIL Collective (helicopters, buttons not used atm)

Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder

XBOX Controller  (moving around in drone camera mode)