140 FPS in Microsoft Flight Simulator

[Cpt_Piett 4,657]

19 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

My wife and I live in a town on the shores of Lake Lugano in the canton of Ticino.

Lucky you! Been to Lugano several times, beautiful place! 

[sonny147 579]

Oh  iam not jealous at all !! 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

24 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

My wife and I live in a town on the shores of Lake Lugano in the canton of Ticino. We moved here just recently from Sion. It's such a beautiful region and great weather. We are right next to Italy so we spend a lot of our free time around Lake Como and the Milan area. If you like the outdoors, history, culture and great food, there are few better places.

Just checked the weather, not too bad. Average temps are similar to southern Oregon or Northern TN, only 10" of average snowfall per year. A bit cold in winter but not that cold.  Cool summers in the 80's, my kind of weather. 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

40 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

My wife and I live in a town on the shores of Lake Lugano in the canton of Ticino. We moved here just recently from Sion. It's such a beautiful region and great weather. We are right next to Italy so we spend a lot of our free time around Lake Como and the Milan area. If you like the outdoors, history, culture and great food, there are few better places.

Love Lugano, drive there often in summer. Stayed at some old 70’s hotel last time, beautiful view and silver service! 

[steve310002 1,198]

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Love Lugano, drive there often in summer. Stayed at some old 70’s hotel last time, beautiful view and silver service! 

Next time you are in the area, I highly recommend visiting the medieval town of Morcote overlooking Lake Lugano. It's quite something. It's widely seen as the most beautiful town in Switzerland.

Edited October 23, 2022 by steve310002

[LGKR 36]

3 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I'm surprised I'm not getting usual persecution in this thread that I usually get when I bring up the Samsung Judder Reduction and running the sim at 24hz with Vsync. I'm usually dismissed and vilified for it. I wonder is it GPU industry insiders that do that. Anyway, I'd strongly recommend that anyone with a Samsung NU6900 try it. Or any other Samsung 4K for that matter. It can be a bit tricky to get it to work right. I've refined it a bit since I posted this video but this will work. I'd certainly encourage anyone with a decent graphics card to try this before going gaga over DLSS.

 

The bottom line line with this method is that when the judder reduction filter is set to 10 at 24hz you are getting 48fps on the screen, with 30hz you get 60fps on screen and with 50hz you get 100fps on screen. I don't use 50hz for flight sim but its awesome for racing games. Personally I cannot perceive any lag in any case.

I have used the judder tweak for years. Previously in P3D, now MSFS. Have run the sim with 25 fps and it's super smooth. Its really the "soap opera" effect turned to max.  I believe most tvs have this option, not only Samsung. It may be called something else than "judder" though. I would google soap opera effect followed by the tv brand to find the relevant setting.

 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

I have used frame interpolation in flight sims before, it didn't do much for me to be frank, maybe a little smoother on the pan. That said, I don't fly into that many poor performing areas. I think most of the manufacturers have changed the names of their FI over the years.

For Samsung TV's, it's now called Motion Rate. Sony is called Motion Flow. LG is called Tru Motion.

I think most TCL TV's it is on by default, turn it to movie mode it will disable "Action Smoothing", or using gaming mode probably disables it. Otherwise, on some TCL's there might be a setting called Action Smoothing (not sure, on mine there isn't). Amazon TV's are likely the same as TCL.

Vizio is called Smooth Motion Effect.

The older models of these TV's often just called it Motion Enhance or Frame Interpolation or Motion something.
 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[FBW737 511]

1 hour ago, LGKR said:

Its really the "soap opera" effect turned to max.

Yep. That's exactly what it is. I also find that as well as smoothing out judders it also makes MSFS 2020 look 3D on my 55". It may be undesirable in movies but in my opinion its fantastic in Flight Sim. It is essentially doubles your performance without any impact on CPU or GPU. It essentially doubles your FPS. If you set your refresh rate in NCP to 24hz (or 23 or 25 for that Matter or 29 or 30) and turn on Vsync in MSFS with Judder Reduction turned up to 10 in the TV's setting the actual frame rate you see on screen is double the refresh rate. Any flight simmer who hasn't tried this owes it to themselves to do so. The thing is it cannot be captured in a video and posted on youtube. At least not in the normal way because the magic sauce is applied on the TV end of the HDMI cable.

I started using it with P3D a couple of years ago and bragged about it on another forum but no one else could see what I was talking about in videos posted because I wasn't tech savy enough to see that it was the TV that was doing it.

Edited October 23, 2022 by FBW737

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Some FI implementations add a tremendous amount of lag (120+ ms), but it varies depending on the TV.
It's not exactly the same as adding more frames, for one the responsiveness of the game is reduced due to the added lag, and the second thing is the frames are not quite as fluid as pure FPS frames, for lack of a better word. There can be artifacts introduced even from TV frame interpolation. 

The biggest difference though, is that if your frame rates are jumpy, the FI will not solve it. Hence, if you are getting 15 fps to 20fps to 25fps and you feel like things are too slideshowy, it will not get rid of that effect.

All said, it's worth trying out, but it's not a magic fix in most cases.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[FBW737 511]

22 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

All said, it's worth trying out, but it's not a magic fix in most cases.

And that said. It is a magic fix in my case. I even remember the first time I saw it. I was playing around with trying to get smooth game play in P3D with a decent level detail and was playing around with 23 and 24hz. I think a switch from 60hz to 23hz in NCP cause the Judder Reduction filter to activate automatically and I nearly fell of the chair in amazement and confusion because I had no idea what happened other than I had never seen Flight sim so smooth and at 23fps It looked more like 60fps or more. After figuring it out and some time tuning TrackIR panning so as not to overwhelm the filter it was settled in my mind this was the best thing since sliced bread. In addition to that I use an app called HCR which allows me to change refresh rate on the fly with a hot key.

I have 23, 29, 50 and 60hz hot keys. So my system cannot maintain 29fps (58fps on screen) taxing to the threshold, I can hit a key and switch to 23fps (46fps on screen). Once in the air I can typically switch back to 29fps (58fps on screen) likewise on approach, land and taxi.

There are pros and cons and as old Nick (RIP) used to say, "You Millage May Vary!)

In my case as I see it, I'll stick with my 3090 since I practically already have DLSS built into my display for free.

[threexgreen 3,139]

Maybe I missed it but I still haven't seen a benchmark showing the 4090 does actually transform a 25-30 FPS stuttery approach into a large airport with AI, clouds, Fenix A320 and ultra settings into a 50-60 FPS, smooth flight where you can forget about performance. The one more elaborate test I've seen was that of @TravelRunner404 here on AVSIM that didn't go so well (heavy artifacts).

I'm not "bashing" the card and I genuinely want to know if it's the holy grail that the hype says it is, but I don't care about the default A320neo at 10000 feet above NYC or the default 172. If anything, the FPS counter showing 140 FPS looks nice but it's obvious given the figure that performance was excellent already before DLSS3 application, so spending ~ 2000 bucks just for that is an extremely lousy proposition. We all know what kind of scenario is heaviest on any machine and that's what I want to see the 4090 do (without artifacts), not doubling 70 FPS in a default plane for the umpteenth time.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

13 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I'm not "bashing" the card and I genuinely want to know if it's the holy grail that the hype says it is, but I don't care about the default A320neo at 10000 feet above NYC or the default 172. If anything, the FPS counter showing 140 FPS looks nice but it's obvious given the figure that performance was excellent already before DLSS3 application, so spending ~ 2000 bucks just for that is an extremely lousy proposition. We all know what kind of scenario is heaviest on any machine and that's what I want to see the 4090 do (without artifacts), not doubling 70 FPS in a default plane for the umpteenth time.

I don't have much faith in DLSS, I think AMD is going to surprise us on November 3rd with their announcement.
It sure seems like Nvidia left the door wide open for AMD, but we will see.

The inherent problem is those slower FPS you see also OFTEN comes with a laggier user responsiveness, meaning the game is not responding correctly overall (because of the high load), and when that happens, any FI like tech is going to increase latency, not reduce it. It may make the jerkiness of that 15 FPS look better, but it won't fix the user responsive jerkiness and it will make it worse overall.

Hopefully we will see an AMD 7900XT that can outperform a 4090 when no tricks are involved, and for under $1000.

The GPU manufacturers have obviously hit a sort of cap with performance on these cards, probably didn't want to disillusion the public with too much power usage.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[threexgreen 3,139]

1 minute ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Hopefully we will see an AMD 7900RTX that can outperform a 4090 when no tricks are involved, and for under $1000.

Always been an Nvidia/Intel person, but if AMD manage to match or exceed them for a decent price they'll have my attention.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Sorry, meant 7900xt, but if AMD steals the RTX letters from Nvidia, more power to them.

 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Anyone want a 4090 check the seller/swap/trade section in the avsim forums.