1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

But can you use your TV frame interpolation to achieve the same effect as DLSS3 in MSFS, effectively doubling the frame rate? Disclaimer: this is an honest question, no trap 🙂

Honest answer, yes!    It exactly doubled the frame rate by placing an 'averaged or interpolated' frame in between each properly generated one.
[Side note:  I don't use it now as a newer Samsung (with the same tech) it is up on the wall in the lounge, and my wife moans if I use it too much - such is life! .  I am happy on my 32 inch 4k with the 3080Ti and DLSS 2 - best I have had it!]

Don't get me wrong.  I am not knocking the 40x0 series cards, and I may end up getting one myself.  I have the money, and a Corsair 1000 watt PSU already in place, so it is not some form of jealousy.  I am just talking about the marketing pitch as if it was something ground-breaking, and we could have had this years ago anyway.  The only difference in how it works is that the Samsung system had a tiny bit more lag by the look of it, but I never really noticed that in the GTA or Uncharted series games I played. 

As for the other things you talk about.  It will always be contentious and difficult to get a reasoned discussion sometimes due to the internet!  

The main thing is that if people are happy with their purchase, then all is good.  I do see some people being critical with a tinge of jealousy - not worth reading half of the comments on YouTube.

12 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

It’s an interesting discussion. Somewhat tangentially related (perhaps to AI but we’re getting further away from the OP topic), is the intriguing story this summer about the Google technician who believes that LaMDA had become sentient. Google has refuted this by claiming its impossible, and apparently they’ve hard-coded it to prevent it from passing the Turing test. 

I personally like to study "AI" which is a misnomer.  How can we possibly have a real artificial intelligence that's sentient when we can't even determine, let alone describe what exactly consciousness is and where in the brain it emanates from?  Can any one of these so-called AI's pass a Turing test?

25 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

As for the other things you talk about.  It will always be contentious and difficult to get a reasoned discussion sometimes due to the internet!  

Thanks for your answer Rob. And yes I need to remind myself of that from time to time 🙂

5 minutes ago, Jack_Sawyer said:

I personally like to study "AI" which is a misnomer.  How can we possibly have a real artificial intelligence that's sentient when we can't even determine, let alone describe what exactly consciousness is and where in the brain it emanates from?  Can any one of these so-called AI's pass a Turing test?

It's an extremely interesting topic. Yuval Noah Harari has some intriguing comments in his book Homo Deus which I highly recommend. 

 

2 hours ago, rka said:

Wait for benchmarks. They might not be best in class for every use case, but I'd expect them to perform extremely well in MSFS again, even if the clock speed is reduced by a few percent, again. 

The 5800x3d is not good in everything as well, just very good for the specific use case of MSFS.

If you are in no hurry and don't have a major reason to upgrade, I agree you may as well wait. If like me, you have been waiting 2 years to upgrade due to supply issues and other reasons, and are coming from an old rig (mine is 7 years old), then waiting more is pointless. Just enjoy the new intel CPUs. Most people will not upgrade their CPU again for 3 to 5 years unless some major technological breakthrough happens. The 13700k and 13900k offer a great experience with MSFS it seems, especially couple with a great GPU so waiting another 6 months for a 5 to 10% increase seems rather pointless. And frankly, having had my upgrade plans thwarted last time by the pandemic induced supply issues, sadly, who knows what will happen in this crazy world by the time x3d chips are released that may cause problems. It's just not worth the wait.

5 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I also saw that video above you posted, and the conflicting reports had pretty much confirmed to me that their was an inner battle within Nvidia between the marketing stretching the truth, and the engineers trying to talk their way around the mess that the marketing had created. They got caught up in a bunch of contradictory statements. AFIK, it's literally impossible to generate frames with AI in something as "real-time" as a GPU, every single millisecond counts because you are trying to maximize FPS. 

 

 

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here, DLSS is computed locally on the GPU. But it's trained on machine learning for each specific game on Nvidia's side to produce an algorithm that works best for each game. Which is why DLSS support arrives through driver updates. 

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Republic3D

17 minutes ago, Republic3D said:

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here, DLSS doesn't use real time AI / machine learning. But it's trained on machine learning for each specific game to produce an algorithm that works best for each game.

That applied for v1, but is no longer true for v2.0+.
 

Quote

One Network For All Games - The original DLSS required training the AI network for each new game. DLSS 2.0 trains using non-game-specific content, delivering a generalised network that works across games. This means faster game integrations, and ultimately more DLSS games.

Source: https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-2-0-a-big-leap-in-ai-rendering/

Also:

Quote

Version 2.0 of DLSS refined the technique’s application. The higher-quality images generated are even more detailed than before, and on the backend, NVIDIA has moved to a game-agnostic system, so every individual game doesn’t need to be tested and trained before DLSS can be implemented.

Source: https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-nvidia-dlss/

1 minute ago, F737MAX said:

That applied for v1, but is no longer true for v2.0+.
 

Source: https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-2-0-a-big-leap-in-ai-rendering/

Also:

Source: https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-nvidia-dlss/

That's interesting.
Definitively a step forward in my opinion.

But why is DLSS support still dependent on each driver?

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Republic3D

I'm surprised I'm not getting usual persecution in this thread that I usually get when I bring up the Samsung Judder Reduction and running the sim at 24hz with Vsync. I'm usually dismissed and vilified for it. I wonder is it GPU industry insiders that do that. Anyway, I'd strongly recommend that anyone with a Samsung NU6900 try it. Or any other Samsung 4K for that matter. It can be a bit tricky to get it to work right. I've refined it a bit since I posted this video but this will work. I'd certainly encourage anyone with a decent graphics card to try this before going gaga over DLSS.

 

The bottom line line with this method is that when the judder reduction filter is set to 10 at 24hz you are getting 48fps on the screen, with 30hz you get 60fps on screen and with 50hz you get 100fps on screen. I don't use 50hz for flight sim but its awesome for racing games. Personally I cannot perceive any lag in any case.

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by FBW737

Found this:- 7950X and 4090 Over New York in A320 external And cockpit view. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Republic3D said:

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here, DLSS is computed locally on the GPU. But it's trained on machine learning for each specific game on Nvidia's side to produce an algorithm that works best for each game. Which is why DLSS support arrives through driver updates. 

There is no misunderstanding and there is no "working" machine learning in their algorithm, other than if they added code to dupe regulators (just in case). Even if you have the algorithm trained on a different setup, and you apply the specific numbers to the equation, there would be too much data for a real-time calculation to alter something in a meaningful way to where it has to be "game specific". This algorithm could have never existed, regardless of which version they claimed it had existed in. This is pretty much to the letter the exact lie Sony used. Sony had trained an algorithm to be "movie specific". Nvidia is literally re-hashing this fantasy from the old Sony claims. You can find the old posts from years ago from Sony's old marketing literature. These companies keep using it, because it works, people keep falling for it and it sells more products. The sad part is the Reality Creation was like running on projectors and TV's and cheap video devices that didn't even have powerful graphics, yet people still bought into. It's slightly more believable when Nvidia makes the claim (which is why they did it), but it's still fake marketing.

If there were such an algorithm, there would be no point to train it on different games, as it would be game-agnostic from the beginning (do not care about which version they claim is doing what). The only purpose to attempt to overlay such code or to claim such a thing is to increase sales with marketing. A real-time image algorithm to be this advanced, yet in reality it is just a super-sampling technique + frame insertion (this is where the lie really goes off the deep-end). The thing about lying and marketing is they almost always mess up on the details, so if you look at the details is how you can tell it's a lie.

Do you think it's a coincidence that multiple companies keep coming up with the same "supersampling or sharpening lie", it's not. It's because marketing people tend to think alike when they are coming up with their stories, so it's a loop. Plus they already knew the story in their back of their mind.
 

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery

29 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

7950X and 4090 Over New York in A320 external And cockpit view. 

Interesting video. Not sure what city it is they are flying over but it looked fairly dense in terms of buildings so a good CPU test. The fps were really high considering the object density and the fact it was the A320 (even if default). It looks great. DLSS 3 looks phenomenal. I saw another video posted today of a guy flying over NYC in the default Cessna 152 and he was blown away by the smoothness and fps (he was using a 12900k). He had an average of 130 fps over Manhatten. He switched off DLSS 3 and was left with 60 fps but you could immediately see the smoothness was lost. So DLSS 3 really does work well. I'll post the video below. 

I can't wait to hear your report when you receive your new rig. I'm planning on ordering mine from PC Specialist as they deliver to Switzerland where I live (as an expat). I think they are UK based and I've read great reviews so fingers crossed it will arrive in one piece. The 13th gen i7 and i9s are unfortunately on pre-order at the moment so I'll wait until they actually have them in stock before pulling the trigger. That is unless your feedback on your new rig doesn't convert me back to team red and the 7950x 😆 

 

38 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

I'm planning on ordering mine from PC Specialist a

Exactly where I get mine from. Can’t be beaten on price and service and quality! 
PS what part of Switzerland? Wife’s friend lives there, the California of Europe I call it. Beautiful place. 

Edited October 23, 20223 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

5 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Exactly where I get mine from. Can’t be beaten on price and service and quality! 
PS what part of Switzerland? Wife’s friend lives there, the California of Europe I call it. Beautiful place. 

My wife and I live in a town on the shores of Lake Lugano in the canton of Ticino. We moved here just recently from Sion. It's such a beautiful region and great weather. We are right next to Italy so we spend a lot of our free time around Lake Como and the Milan area. If you like the outdoors, history, culture and great food, there are few better places.