June 21, 20232 yr 46 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: I don't think any of your stated doubts about MSFS 2020 have come to pass IRL, unless you count cherry picked and highly skewed examples. What microsoft wanted and everyone insisted was coming https://steamcharts.com/app/236390#All what Microsoft got https://steamcharts.com/app/1250410#All 46 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: Here's all you need to know about Aces of Thunder: "Aces of Thunder is an all-new combat flight sim by Gaijin Entertainment, creator of War Thunder." So, yeah, if you think the makers of War Thunder are bringing a highly realistic, reality based flight sim to the market, that's going to "dominate" MSFS in the flight sim genre, you're delusional. You've seen the trailer? and the reactions 40 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: Gonna be a great GAME. They are adding in all the best parts of "sim", to their flawless and well loved gaming experience with quality control by Sony. with the graphics to boot 46 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: People keep complaining about AA in X-Plane, don't they? Well, IMHO the markets are mostly divided by what they want, MSFS2020's problems were it didn't meet most of the needs of private pilots, who are incredibly demanding in terms of realism, nor does it meet the needs of the casual simmer who just wants something fun to do rather than texting on their phone or watching the Kardasians on the televisor. Waiting for huge downloads (microsoft download simulator) doesn't check that box. X-Plane held up because it is simply unbeatable meeting all of the needs of private pilots - to which graphics are secondary "nice to haves", and is also unbeatable on price for the casual simmer who wants to sim fly around an area they know. XP12 is also going to be a fantastic sim graphically once they Iron out the issues they are now focused on - which they will I am sure. It will also hold up great when the majority of users have converted to "can never go back to 2D" 46 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: IL2 would've already done it. Not a bad posit. But, I would argue, the reasons War Thunder is so insanely popular, and X-Plane, MSFS2020, DCS and IL2 are not, has nothing to do with the complaints and comments you will find posted on forums, and everything to do with the developers understanding the things their users don't say (and responding correctly to the things they do). Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
June 21, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, mSparks said: I said funny, not ROFL funny. I beg to differ. What IS funny though is that this part of Avsim only wakes up when discussing MSFS.
June 21, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, mSparks said: I said funny, not ROFL funny. I beg to differ. What IS funny though is that this part of Avsim only wakes up when discussing MSFS.
June 21, 20232 yr Quote What microsoft wanted and everyone insisted was coming https://steamcharts.com/app/236390#All what Microsoft got https://steamcharts.com/app/1250410#All You're comparing a Free 2 Play MMO simplistic combat flight game to a $60 - $120 world & flight simulator? Because they both feature...planes? You must be joking... The numbers are the numbers, right? Why don't you post MSFS' real competitors? Oh yes, because then you'd have to admit how TRULY dominating MSFS is within its genre. Quote You've seen the trailer? Um...yeah, and...??? It looks beautiful. But it's still War Thunder under the skin, and thus very much Lipstick On A Pig when it comes to flight simulation. You're hyped about it because of VR, and it seems like you're letting all that blind you to the limitations of this game, and of it's older brother. Nobody in their right mind equates War Thunder,et al., with flight simulators. Because they're NOT flight simulators... Wanna prove it to yourself? It's easy - just go and list all the features of X-Plane in one column, then MSFS in the next, then add Il2Sturmovik in the middle, and then add in War thunder and Aces of Thunder. The total mismatch between what constitutes a flight simulator vs a flight game will become glaringly obvious - even to YOU. LoL - the "reaction" video is by a guy who doesn't even OWN a gaming PC of any sort! He ONLY plays PlayStation, and describes himself as a hard core War Thunder "sim" player!!! WT Sim is more realistic than the mouse and keyboard default, but it is NOT a generally realistic flight simulator. Not even in the same ballpark... Quote They are adding in all the best parts of "sim" Oh, THIS is especially rich, coming from you. Please, do tell us how it will be a flight sim? Because you'll be able to manipulate a few controls in the cockpit? Ha ha! Is control manipulation that what makes X-Plane or MSFS a "sim"? "And great graphics, to boot?" As if that counts for much in your flight sim world view... Quote the markets are mostly divided by what they want, MSFS2020's problems were it didn't meet most of the needs of private pilots, who are incredibly demanding in terms of realism, nor does it meet the needs of the casual simmer who just wants something fun to do This old joke, again? It's been proven utterly false, on both sides of the spectrum, so completely and publicly that it's not worth addressing further. Quote X-Plane held up because it is simply unbeatable meeting all of the needs of private pilots - to which graphics are secondary "nice to haves", and is also unbeatable on price for the casual simmer who wants to sim fly around an area they know. If we're going to go off Navigraphs survey data, a miniscule amount of IRL pilots use either sim. And those that do recognize the limitations of both. XPs greatest shortcoming for casual simmers is those "who want to sim fly around an area they know". It costs exactly the same as MSFS and has only basic realism for sight seeing. Sorry, MSFS is far and away superior for casual flight simmers. And way cheaper, too, because you can buy a $500 Xbox, which comes with a controller, to fly it. Game over, son. Quote XP12 is also going to be a fantastic sim graphically once they Iron out the issues No, it's not. Because Austin himself just said in an interview the other day that he remains uninterested in photo realistic terrain. It's never going to compete with MSFS in "graphics" because he doesn't truly care about that aspect of his ENGINEERING TOOL. Quote It will also hold up great when the majority of users have converted to "can never go back to 2D" Ha ha - the public market share numbers say that is going to be far, far in the future. We'll be old men IF that ever comes to pass. Quote Not a bad posit. But, I would argue, the reasons War Thunder is so insanely popular, and X-Plane, MSFS2020, DCS and IL2 are not, has nothing to do with the complaints and comments you will find posted on forums, and everything to do with the developers understanding the things their users don't say (and responding correctly to the things they do). You're DIS-proving your own point, once again. WT is so insanely popular because it is a casual flight game that has a VERY low TCO relative to flight simulators of any type. Laminar, MS/Asobo, Eagle Dynamics and (perhaps) 1CGS do indeed understand their users, and deliver the experience they're seeking. The greatly enhanced realism these simulators offer is exactly what we crave, though ironically it is that exact thing that makes "true" simulators less popular. Edited June 21, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta correction
June 21, 20232 yr 59 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: No, it's not. Because Austin himself just said in an interview the other day that he remains uninterested in photo realistic terrain. It's never going to compete with MSFS in "graphics" because he doesn't truly care about that aspect of his ENGINEERING TOOL That's not what he said. He is indeed not a fan of orthophotos but clearly said that he is very interested in making the graphics look better. He even elaborated quite long on that point and gave examples. And since today morning, after having tried Autoortho and having tuned my Nvidia-settings to use DSR, i was blown away by the results: https://ibb.co/F5Jpprxhttps://ibb.co/vk9SbKQ MSFS looks native like that (with the right settings), XP not. But Autoorthos are free and give the same results and are very easy to install, compared to the 2 days i needed to install MSFS (after having spent hours with the MS customer service). And tbh I never ever saw MSFS looking better than this (except the clouds, that still needs to be improved). For me XP gives me clearly much more satisfaction than MSFS, that unfortunately lacks too many things for my personal needs . Btw you still didn't explained me why you were thinking that MSFS was more realistic from a pilot/aviation perspective? Edited June 21, 20232 yr by Franz007 i9 12900k, RTX 3090, 32GB RAM
June 21, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said: You're comparing a Free 2 Play MMO simplistic combat flight game to a $60 - $120 world & flight simulator? Because they both feature...planes? You must be joking... free makes no difference here: https://steamcharts.com/app/223750 (that also puts the "real" XP12 numbers in this survey into perspective) Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
June 21, 20232 yr 6 hours ago, blingthinger said: Your lacking mental health acumen is disturbing. Not a topic for funzies. Kapish? The advice is usually the opposite, i.e. don't use the adjective when describing the condition or people living with it. See point 4: https://www.healthpartners.com/blog/mental-illnesses-terms-to-use-terms-to-avoid/ However you're right that we should all do our bit to move things forward, so I'll think about my language choices more when describing this idea. A better way to describe the thinking might be common-or-garden propaganda mentality: our rival is simultaneously an evil danger and weak and pathetic. 6 hours ago, blingthinger said: No sh*#!! Really? Even with 10 million installs? Even a huge chunk of diehard, hook-photogrammetry-to-my-IV fans have been irked by this situation. What could PR/marketing have done differently here? Not a soul sneezed when XP12 was declared to require payment. Not one. Not only is the version interval short, but they've handled it like an evil mega corp is expected to. Oh, I think marketing did just fine. It was an XboX parade. The thing they want is buzz, and they got buzz. Some are in raptures, some are pulling their hair out, but all are talking about it, even here, in another sim's forums. And I agree, unfortunately (really, I don't like MS having an effective monopoly one bit) XP12 continues to produce not a sneeze. Version interval is not short. Used to be every two years for MS products (or something like that). i910900k, RTX 3090, 32GB DDR4 RAM, AW3423DW, Ruddy girt big mug of Yorkshire Tea
June 21, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, scotchegg said: XP12 continues to produce not a sneeze It isnt worth anyone pushing hard yet, too early. I still reckon it will take 12.10 before it starts making a real impact, but their plans for 12.06 already will go a long way. C172s, 737s, 744s and Robinsons just aren't that exciting or cool for the vast majority of people, and those who do seriously care about them are already hooked. Once we get to 12.10, the base simulator should be at the point it already has meaningful mass market appeal, and everyone else will be able to benefit from that - but right now the only people who can really enjoy it are on very high end PCS and Macs - a small fraction of an already small market, and even then there are still a few big showstoppers like CTDs, sketchy clouds and unexplained performance issues. That puts a big dampener on anyone and everyones willingness to sing its praises. But that wont happen automatically, it takes time and a lot of work. Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
June 21, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, mSparks said: Once we get to 12.10, the base simulator should be at the point it already has meaningful mass market appeal, and everyone else will be able to benefit from that I really think it needs the scenery for mass market appeal. It's what I keep hanging around for, hoping one day when I pop in here there's going to be a thread about new scenery tech. The other visual parts seem to be going quite nicely, if not quite at the 'Wow, that's much better than the competition offers' stage. If 2024 produces some AI-enhanced ortho tech, it's going to make things harder. Edit: not that mass market is, or even should be, the goal. Edited June 21, 20232 yr by scotchegg i910900k, RTX 3090, 32GB DDR4 RAM, AW3423DW, Ruddy girt big mug of Yorkshire Tea
June 21, 20232 yr 20 minutes ago, scotchegg said: really think it needs the scenery for mass market appeal. I really think war thunder proves that isn't true. Mass market needs high quality, quick and easy as a bare minimum, that takes skill and experience to know where to cut corners for quick and easy without killing the quality. For every person that posts "CTD on final" on a forum, probably 1,000 others uninstalled it and moved on. This is where flight sim generally falls over, and absolutely why I think aces of thunder picked the right starting point - planes that wet behind the ears kids were effectively given a short briefing then thrown into the skys to fight, darwins law for those who didn't listen. In the real world you technically need 1500 hours of flying experience before they will even let you sit in the copilot seat of a large tubeliner. For people willing to put that effort in, spending an evening installing upgraded scenery is nothing. Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
June 21, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Franz007 said: That's not what he said. He is indeed not a fan of orthophotos but clearly said that he is very interested in making the graphics look better. He even elaborated quite long on that point and gave examples. And since today morning, after having tried Autoortho and having tuned my Nvidia-settings to use DSR, i was blown away by the results: https://ibb.co/F5Jpprxhttps://ibb.co/vk9SbKQ MSFS looks native like that (with the right settings), XP not. But Autoorthos are free and give the same results and are very easy to install, compared to the 2 days i needed to install MSFS (after having spent hours with the MS customer service). And tbh I never ever saw MSFS looking better than this (except the clouds, that still needs to be improved). For me XP gives me clearly much more satisfaction than MSFS, that unfortunately lacks too many things for my personal needs . Btw you still didn't explained me why you were thinking that MSFS was more realistic from a pilot/aviation perspective? The things that folks like about MSFS is the photo-reality. And it delivers photo real "out of the box" like no other sim - Ever. XP v12 looks very good, and is certainly better than ever, and continue to improve. But graphically it's not up to the level of MSFS, and yes - Austin himself repeatedly says he's not interested in competing with MSFS, especially on the eye candy photo real aspect. And I'm okay with that, because his focus is on the core of why flight sim is important to me. And he delivers. I've been hooked on X-Plane since 11 was new-ish, and that hasn't changed. HOWEVER, I'm not so slavishly devoted to ignore the fact that just as X-Plane delivers a generally superior flight model and other sim aspects, without third party addons, the same holds true of MSFS when it comes to scenery. I said it before, they're Yin/Yang, and it appears that they are actually pushing each other (which ends up being better for all sim enthusiasts). It might have taken you two days to install MSFS, with tech support, and I'm sad that marred your experience. I've never had a serious problem with it in all these years (just like X-Plane). Like you, if I could really only have one or the other, I'd go X-Plane for all the well known reasons (at least for the near future - MSFS is rapidly improving in all regards). p.s.: I NEVER said MSFS is more realistic from an IRL pilotage perspective. I said the SCENERY is more realistic (for VFR).
June 21, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, mSparks said: free makes no difference here: https://steamcharts.com/app/223750 (that also puts the "real" XP12 numbers in this survey into perspective) DCS World is "free" just like the first hit of crack cocaine usually is... Next false equivalent?
June 21, 20232 yr 24 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: DCS World is "free" just like the first hit of crack cocaine usually is... Next false equivalent? https://store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?category=warthunderpacks msfs marketplace is equivalent to that no? just microsoft doesnt even have 1% of that userbase shopping in their store. DCS 0.1% #HugeSuccesss Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
June 22, 20232 yr 29 minutes ago, mSparks said: https://store.gaijin.net/catalog.php?category=warthunderpacks msfs marketplace is equivalent to that no? just microsoft doesnt even have 1% of that userbase shopping in their store. DCS 0.1% #HugeSuccesss Unlike WT, there is no option to "grind" your way up to better aircraft in DCS. If you want a premium "study level" aircraft, dig out your wallet. (And, as an aside, it's comically tragic that people would pay the same amount of money for a WT toy as a "study level" addon in the various simulators...) And again, why are we comparing War Thunder/Aces Thunder combat games to flight simulators? Different genre, different target market, different monetization, different...everything. Edited June 22, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta
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