30 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

It remains to be seen what current FS2020 owners will pay

I doubt that. I'm sure most everyone in question will pay the asking price. I'm also confident that we'll all be stunned if it is given away for free.

 

32 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

Even if it is sold at full price for everyone, so what?

My curiosity is wondering how long the franchise will continue to be developed before another ACES situation happens. Given the hooplah about 10 million downloads and growing (among other hurrahs), it really seems odd that they're suddenly hyping a second version if the cash flow is breaking the coffers.

The amount of free stuff we got since MSFS was released is astonishing. I would have no issues whatsoever paying for a new version after four years. 

5 hours ago, GoranM said:

Round and round we go

I’ll say.😂  
 

5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I don’t recall anyone from MS or Asobo ever saying at any time the the MSFS franchise would be free for the entire proposed 10-year life cycle.

Im almost certain they didn't, people saying they did should be called out on it - at least to provide a source for their claims.

They may have expected it, especially given how expensive it was, but that is something different.

5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

And, we still don’t have any information from any official source that 2024 will be “pay to upgrade”.

that is about the only thing they have confirmed

https://www.flightsimulator.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-2024-faq/

Will Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 be a completely standalone sequel, or will it also be offered as a paid update for existing players? 

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is a standalone simulator and the next-generation sequel to Microsoft Flight Simulator that launched in 2020

I dont think there is any doubt left now as to whether 2020 was pulling the weight needed and expected from it.

Of course, it wont be extra pay for gamepass subscribers....

On 6/14/2023 at 6:37 PM, mSparks said:

Steam users just upgraded to XP12 from XP11 buying direct from Laminar rather than buying it on steam.

Exactly what I did.

On 6/13/2023 at 12:36 PM, mSparks said:

With their steam stats down to 5% of what they were at launch (100,000 per day in early august 2020 to 5000 per day now) how else do you describe the shock decision to try and relaunch it other than a blatant acknowledgement that it is dated and uncompetitive?

read the thread again, this is pretty much exactly what was shown was happening in these navigraph stats, but no one wanted to believe it.

FSX was the #1 sim for just shy of 15 years, msfs2021 barely survived 2.

Come now, saying MSFS is dead because of 2024 is like saying X-Plane is dead because of v12.

And though Steam is known to be skewed for a number of reasons, I'm sure Austin would LOVE to "fail" with 5,000 daily XP users on Steam. I haven't looked in awhile, but last I heard, the Steam stats for XP 12 are still much lower than v11, which itself is far, far less than MSFS has ever been.

Not knocking XP - you know I'm a fan - but we gotta keep perspective here...

On 6/13/2023 at 12:59 PM, mSparks said:

exactly what people were not looking past. 

If that was the case there would be no need or desire to invest in relaunching it.

It wasnt true, the truth was they were burning away more users per day (originally acquired by marketing expenditure) than any of the other sims had users - into the other sims.

XP12 especially.

relaunch is a cynical attempt to get them back.

And given there is nothing in that relaunch trailer I haven't already seen XP12 do better (most if not all of which should release well before 2024)..... And that by 2024 I would expect most flight sim users will be like me and never be able go back to 2D....

lol, interesting times.

heck, even the 744 has firefighting kit for years already, just load up the global supertanker livery.

What makes you think this is a "cynical" "re-launch" and not just the next version - after all it'll be 4+ years since launch, right? Laminar is on a 5-ish year schedule, so what's the big deal...?

On 6/13/2023 at 2:44 PM, blingthinger said:

Aside from the fact that version 2024 is arriving 6 years earlier than advertised/expected.

Debunked. Next?

On 6/14/2023 at 5:22 AM, mSparks said:

for pmdg systems on xbox, xbox needed wasm support. 

the powers that be were refusing to let Asobo provide wasm support on xbox (due to the piracy risk), the hold up wasnt technical it was political.

the OP, X-Plane on mobile (aka linux) was more popular than MSFS 2020 on XBOX

 

The only surprise here is how far Prepar3D has fallen, and how DCS World has risen.

If you add up XP v11 & v12, you're still trailing MSFS by a large margin.

On 6/14/2023 at 3:41 PM, blingthinger said:

Asobo's promises of a decade of free updates

citation needed.

never mind, doesn't exist.

On 6/14/2023 at 4:08 PM, blingthinger said:

Did Asobo claim they'd be releasing multiple paid-for updates during the 10 years? I don't remember hearing that. Pay once and enjoy the ride.

And again...sigh...

All of these statements were about MS/Asobo's long term commitment to the platform.

These comments were in response to many folks justifiably criticizing MS for pulling the plug on FSX & Flight. Nothing to do with "free updates for 10 years"

 

On 6/14/2023 at 4:22 PM, mSparks said:

In fact the only evidence we have is after that simply gigantic investment, is this survey, which shows they are barely competing with XP11, and XBOX was a bust.

This survey shows that a 3 year old flight sim is handily beating X-Plane 11 & 12 combined...

Not to mention the utter destruction of the previously dominant Prepar3D.

Go ahead, go back thru the previous Navigraph surveys. They tell a distinctly different story than the yarn you're spinning.

57 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This survey shows that a 3 year old flight sim is handily beating X-Plane 11 & 12 combined...

Not to mention the utter destruction of the previously dominant Prepar3D.

Go ahead, go back thru the previous Navigraph surveys. They tell a distinctly different story than the yarn you're spinning.

wait till  2024  comes  out  sure  both  2020  and  2024  will beat  all other  sims 🙂

 

Quote

To be fair, I don't recall anyone from MS or Asobo ever saying there will be new versions every few years, either.  

Why wouldn't there be new versions every few years - just like X-Plane and P3D and DCS World?

Quote

When any developer makes a mention of "supporting" a product, it's a general consensus that the product in question will be maintained at no cost to the end user.  

ha aha ha aha ha ahahahahahaha!!!!

Quote

Jorg, himself said, the new MSFS will be supported for 10 years.  That was months before release.  

Anyone here realize all of these MSFS guys are ESL? You're going to hang them on a single word, when it's contextually clear what they meant?

Quote

When people scream, the developer has every right to say, "We never said the updates would be free."

That's right. And the devs who are fair about paid upgrades (like Laminar & LM) can obviously "get away with it," because it's reasonable.

Quote

If a product is going to get support for 10 years, with incremental versions thrown within those 10 years, it would be preferable that this was mentioned a lot earlier.

"Reasonable" and "Customary" are words with which you should become familiar. See above.

Edited June 17, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

saying MSFS is dead because of 2024 is like saying X-Plane is dead because of v12.

well, there is a lot to unpack there.

What do you mean by dead?

is Quake 2 or Portal dead? (protip, if you have an RTX card, both highly recommended)

How about Battlefield 1943...

Do you disagree that saying MSFS2020 is going to die because of MSFS2024 is like saying X-Plane 11 is going to die because of X-Plane 12?

Do you agree/disagree that MSFS2020 and X-Plane 11 are dead because of X-Plane 12?

(I didn't really get much into that conversation, beyond completely losing interest along with most everyone else in MSFS2020 very very soon after its release)

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The only surprise here is how far Prepar3D has fallen, and how DCS World has risen.

not really, I say it accurately reflects the investment the developers put into the respective platforms, and how successful they have been in creating software people want to use and keep using.

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

If you add up XP v11 & v12, you're still trailing MSFS by a large margin.

If you add up the steam deck sales you will see they are still trailing all the Ti85 calculators by a large margin.

I would posit doing either isn't that useful.

What really, really mattered wrt MSFS in this survey, was that developers - both Microsoft and other big names like PMDG - were investing $$$$$$$$ with the expectation of selling into the millions upon millions of XBOX and PC users that would be coming to flight sim.

MSFS PC users evaporated faster than a petri dish of rubbing alcohol, and XBOX is still DOA.

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

What makes you think this is a "cynical" "re-launch" and not just the next version

MSFS PC users evaporated faster than a petri dish of rubbing alcohol, and XBOX is still DOA. There is no plan to "fix" that by releasing new versions of MSFS2020.

They are however, going to try re-launching it.