On 6/17/2023 at 11:11 AM, Franz007 said:

I have been XP-user since 2000 and started with XP 6.70. In that time never ever where there any annual new releases, just iterations within the same main version.

Perhaps the Wikipedia article is incorrect. It's been known to happen 😉

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And so they're going to walk away from it in 2024?

A project contract reaches its conclusion date just means neither party is contractually obliged to abide by the things in the contract.

https://oboloo.com/blog/what-is-a-contract-expiration-date-definition/

For MSFS no more SUs.

I generally expect, the Sagaard Newgen investment was needed because they missed some important KPIs - probably XBOX related given the performance in this survey, but maybe also PC given the investment MS put into the branding.

Edited June 20, 20232 yr by mSparks

57 minutes ago, mSparks said:

For MSFS no more SUs.

They've briefly stated that updates to 2020 will continue even after 2024 releases.

I find that puzzling given 2024's stated positioning, but hopefully they have it figured out in a manner that their customers will accept.

"Investments" are only made when Returns are reasonably anticipated. I.e., venture cap is usually given as a reward for good performance, and as a way to finance growth ahead of revenue. Not, as you're implying, for the complete opposite.

Governments give bailouts, not VCs...

41 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

They've briefly stated that updates to 2020 will continue even after 2024 releases.

Do you have a source for that, my understanding, while it could be wrong because I only paid a passing attention, was that they would deliver the wishlish items they had started, nothing more.

41 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

"Investments" are only made when Returns are reasonably anticipated. I.e., venture cap is usually given as a reward for good performance, and as a way to finance growth ahead of revenue. Not, as you're implying, for the complete opposite.

MSFS was a massive investment on the part of all involved, probably a ten figure sum all in, 9 figures a year for each of the 10 years.

I'm just saying that investment commitment looks like it finishes in 2024. They will of course keep "feeding" it with mission packs and planes as long as people buy them.

Edited June 20, 20232 yr by mSparks

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

This is the proof that Common Sense is...neither.

I have no idea what this means.

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Why did you wait so long?

Aside from the fact I could just say, "Because I felt like it.", I didn't.  I got it on Gamepass soon after it came out.  Hated it.  Cancelled Gamepass.  I waited a while so they could fix things before I got it again.  This time with a full purchase.  

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And will you not get enough RoI from it in the year or so til 2024 releases that you could fairly consider it a waste of money?

You obviously haven't seen the tweet announcing an ETA.  Don't bother looking.  It has since been deleted.  Let's just say I would rather have waited.  Besides, I didn't get it to "fly" in it.  I got it for research purposes.  Now that a new version is coming, the purchase (for research purposes) was literally, a waste of money.  

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

See Common Sense, above.

Just because you disagree with me, doesn't mean you're right.  That's the beauty of differing opinions.  

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Neither has Lockheed Martin. Nor Eagle Dynamics. And did XP v11 close out before "addressing all bugs"...?

I don't have P3D, so can't comment.  You can't mention Eagle Dynamics.  DCS is free.  XP11 had all issues resolved.  Hard to believe, I know.  But 11.55 was considered final and stable.  If it crashed due to plugin conflict, that's on the plugin author.

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Shockingly, they've said that 2020 is going to continue to be not only supported, but will receive additional features, etc. We'll see how that plays out IRL...

Excuse my scepticism, but I lost all faith in MSFS when Microsoft pulled the plug on FSX, without warning, and then put out MS Flight for about 10 minutes.  Making some kind of announcement about 2020 still being supported is one thing.  Until I see it happen, I simply won't believe it.  And that's purely because Microsoft still pulls the strings where MSFS and Asobo is concerned.  

7 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

No mystery: monthly recurring expenses are high, AND they're saying the advancements in the next version are substantial enough to warrant a new paid release.

100% agreed. No mystery. Sales are insufficient to cover recurring expenses.

And to boot.... dangle lovely, flourishing roadmaps in people's faces with dates to get folks excited and then broadside them with a wagging finger and a knowing smile. Another round of applause for corporate 'merica's marketing hounds.

Graphics look identical too so I doubt it would be too much effort to support both platforms for a while longer. Helps the bilk go down more smoothly.

Edited June 21, 20232 yr by blingthinger

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

Do you have a source for that, my understanding, while it could be wrong because I only paid a passing attention, was that they would deliver the wishlish items they had started, nothing more.

MSFS was a massive investment on the part of all involved, probably a ten figure sum all in, 9 figures a year for each of the 10 years.

I'm just saying that investment commitment looks like it finishes in 2024. They will of course keep "feeding" it with mission packs and planes as long as people buy them.

https://www.flightsimulator.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-2024-faq/

"What kind of support can Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) players expect to see once Flight Simulator 2024 has been released? 

We will continue to deliver our Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) Roadmap which has content ranging from Aircraft and Avionics Updates, Sim Updates, City and World Updates, and also the free Dune DLC. We will continue to support Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) post the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 launch."

Like I said, not too sure what that will actually turn out to be IRL...

 

3 hours ago, blingthinger said:

100% agreed. No mystery. Sales are insufficient to cover recurring expenses.

Really not sure where you're getting your business acumen from, but in the same way that massive funds don't measure their size in tens of $bns in FUM, companies do not only release new products when previous products have stopped covering expenses. Often they do it just to, come closer a second.......increase their profits.

Some schizophrenic attitudes to MS and their sim over here. OTOH they're the gigantic, evil conglomerate suffocating the heroic, maverick devs of other products, and on the other, a house of cards permanently on the verge of collapse.

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

We will continue to deliver our Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) Roadmap

that was it, Ty. I read that to simply mean they werent abandoned the roadmap.

That is not the same as, for example, fixing the line in the horizon people keep posting in screenshots and complaining about. I wonder if they are counted fixing that as a "substantial improvement warranting a new version".

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Like I said, not too sure what that will actually turn out to be IRL...

Its actually funny.

Because a significant portion of my original doubts about 2020 (which mostly played out more or less as I expected tbh) will not apply to 2024, but now everyone seems all super skeptical about 2024...

And after all this, Sony, of all the contenders, actually have all the ingredients together to absolutely dominate everyone in a survey or two, contingent on their hardware sales.

Aces of Thunder is much more a direct competitor to msfs2024 than either ever were or will be to X-Plane.

Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

Aces of Thunder is much more a direct competitor to msfs2024 than either ever were or will be to X-Plane.

Roflmao!!!🤣

16 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Roflmao!!!🤣

flight sim designed for VR at 4K with eye tracking

zero bugs

mass market appeal

lead by a flight game developer that regularly attracts 100,000 concurrent steam users

I said funny, not ROFL funny.

Once that drops it will actually be hard for navigraph to find anyone who has used anything else

Edited June 21, 20232 yr by mSparks

9 hours ago, scotchegg said:

schizophrenic attitudes

Your lacking mental health acumen is disturbing. Not a topic for funzies. Kapish?

 

9 hours ago, scotchegg said:

...increase their profits.

No sh*#!! Really? Even with 10 million installs? Even a huge chunk of diehard, hook-photogrammetry-to-my-IV fans have been irked by this situation. What could PR/marketing have done differently here? Not a soul sneezed when XP12 was declared to require payment. Not one. Not only is the version interval short, but they've handled it like an evil mega corp is expected to.

 

Then there's this, which I hadn't heard yet:

11 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

We will continue to deliver our Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) Roadmap which has content ranging from Aircraft and Avionics Updates, Sim Updates, City and World Updates, and also the free Dune DLC. We will continue to support Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020) post the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 launch."

Good news for everyone. What this means is that the code base is essentially identical. Minimal changes to graphics engine, etc. Same scenery, same flight model, etc. This means 2024 is a DLC update for xbox. 2020 will get full DX12 implementation plus the full roadmap treatment. I don't get the fuss over there, then. They won't make much off 2024 since it's just a career mode mod. Not as much profit.

Not a soul would have sneeezed at a post FSX version. Applying your vast acumen then, ACES was axed because FSX ceased turning a profit. Pure and simple. This market is still relatively small. I don't see that not happening again in the future. The other explanation is that flight simulation was the play-thing for one (or more) executives. When they left, it was game over. Pun intended. That's just as likely to happen with this product line. Profit or not.

 

9 hours ago, mSparks said:

That is not the same as, for example, fixing the line in the horizon people keep posting in screenshots and complaining about. I wonder if they are counted fixing that as a "substantial improvement warranting a new version".

Its actually funny.

Because a significant portion of my original doubts about 2020 (which mostly played out more or less as I expected tbh) will not apply to 2024, but now everyone seems all super skeptical about 2024...

And after all this, Sony, of all the contenders, actually have all the ingredients together to absolutely dominate everyone in a survey or two, contingent on their hardware sales.

Aces of Thunder is much more a direct competitor to msfs2024 than either ever were or will be to X-Plane.

People keep complaining about AA in X-Plane, don't they? And the various other issues? And there were long standing problems in v11 that never really got "fixed" until v12, which brought it's own problems.

And let's not forget about all the (much needed) improvement to the general flight model that never came until v12, either (so even XP's flagship feature needed fixing...).

I don't think any of your stated doubts about MSFS 2020 have come to pass IRL, unless you count cherry picked and highly skewed examples.

People are skeptical about v2024 because MS aren't following either, a. Established Expectations, or b. Conventional Versioning. It'll turn out fine, i'm sure, just as v2020 has, and just as X-Plane v12 is rapidly improving, as well.

Sony? PlayStation? Aces of Thunder? "Absolutely dominate everyone [in flight sim]"?

That is genuinely freakin' hilarious!

Here's all you need to know about Aces of Thunder: "Aces of Thunder is an all-new combat flight sim by Gaijin Entertainment, creator of War Thunder."

So, yeah, if you think the makers of War Thunder are bringing a highly realistic, reality based flight sim to the market, that's going to "dominate" MSFS in the flight sim genre, you're delusional.

Oh, and by the way, if Aces of Thunder does actually "dominate" MSFS, don't forget that it'll also dominate X-Plane. LoLs all the way...

The proof is simply that War Thunder itself, available on PC and XBox already, and in VR, would've already delivered the hyper-success you're dreaming of.

WT, and now AT, are "combat flight games", not flight simulators. WT is fun and entertaining (oh, and "free"), but it is NOT known for high fidelity...anything. I mean, they do really nice 3D models...

Further, if a VR-enabled WWII combat flight sim were capable of "dominating" flight sim surveys, IL2 would've already done it.

All this is just another of your fever dreams where you raise X-Plane as a false idol. And yeah, RotFlmAO.

Edited June 21, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

flight sim designed for VR at 4K with eye tracking

zero bugs

mass market appeal

lead by a flight game developer that regularly attracts 100,000 concurrent steam users

I said funny, not ROFL funny.

Once that drops it will actually be hard for navigraph to find anyone who has used anything else

Gonna be a great GAME. Just like War Thunder, literally it's older brother.

Navigraph wouldn't touch it because...well, we don't really need to explain reality to that degree, do we?

Not to mention that, y'know, EFBs and NavAids weren't really a thing in WW2...

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Your lacking mental health acumen is disturbing. Not a topic for funzies. Kapish?

Lighten up, Francis.

It's a common colloquialism.