Another lump of coal: PMDG Update [24DEC22]

[Noel 4,504]

3 hours ago, Jazz said:

they should be replaced and lord only knows why they still haven't but I never look there to be honest so I wouldn't even notice when they are.

The PMDG 738 is really easy on performance for what it does, and if adding a few lower res textures in places I have yet to inspect helps in that regard it's okay by me. 

[F737MAX 5,613]

52 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

its abundantly clear that some of you complain way too much over something so petty

 

Not really, this post^^ (and the subsequent ones) sums up some fundamental issues with following paths.
For a top-end add-on, it should be doing better.

[bobcat999 8,484]

This news has really killed me and my perception of the 737. 
I now have to check the quality of the wheel wells and the back of the cockpit door on every aircraft I own before I can enjoy a flight. 
PDMG! - Why-Oh-Why did you let this happen?  

Edited January 2, 2023 by bobcat999

[Farlis 2,287]

On 1/1/2023 at 12:42 PM, Ricardo41 said:

You conveniently left out this part of the announcement:

"It is looking more and more as though we will release one function at a time on the UFT, in order to put focus on individual functions in the testing process

This statement is aimed towards the beta testing process and has nothing to do with the release candidate.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Farlis

[Christopher Low 5,354]

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Not so much. The 737 is a great product. But it could be better. And here is the thing... The DC-6 has an EFB but the 737 doesn't?

Probably because the DC6 does not require the same level of detail or feature integration as the more modern airliners.

[DD_Arthur 1,050]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

The PMDG 738 is really easy on performance for what it does, and if adding a few lower res textures in places I have yet to inspect helps in that regard it's okay by me. 

As the proud owner of a potato rig I have to say Amen to this.

[UrgentSiesta 932]

10 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Silly me, I bought this plane with the understanding that PMDG would make - in a timely fashion, or at least with a timeline - good on their promises to fix glaring issues such as the lack of simbrief integration, jpeg low-rez textures, and an EFB. Progress on the EFB seems to be going at the speed of molasses, the other two seem to have vanished from the agenda entirely.

 

These have been "issues" since the addon launched.

As someone else who actually RTFM already pointed out, SimBrief is there. YOU may not like the exact mechanism, but at least don't lie, or if not lying, then at least RTFM. Which kinda brings us back to the same place, don't it... 😉

All I can say is don't even EVER bother checking out that OTHER "piece of coal", the Mad Dog...

The "low rez" textures have also been there since launch - they were highlighted in the initial pre-release review stream.

And they're in such incredibly obscure locations that it's quite reasonable to drop this one in the Rivet Counter circular file.

I mean, if that kinda stuff bugs you so much, i can't imagine that you were simming before MSFS. SMH...

So the only actual thing you've got to hang a hat on is the EFB, and the only thing there is the unsatisfactory timing. And unsat timing is something that PMDG (and many other developers) are famous for...

I'm not going to defend them there because, as I've stated, it's something they could've and should've created a drop in/placeholder tablet with minimal functionality. So it seems their Vision is getting in the way of their Progress on this one.

But again, if all THAT is enough to put you off flying an addon, AND it existed since the beginning, then bad on you for not recognizing your own limitations during pre-purchase Caveat Emptor.

Edited January 2, 2023 by UrgentSiesta
grammar

[JRBarrett 3,080]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

The PMDG 738 is really easy on performance for what it does, and if adding a few lower res textures in places I have yet to inspect helps in that regard it's okay by me. 

If they do eventually do hi-res textures for the wheel wells, people will probably still complain, unless they manage to obtain photos of the pristine wheel wells of a completely new 737 on the factory floor.

The wheel wells of an airliner that has been in service for any length of time are typically filthy. Dirt and grime is kicked up on every landing - (especially on wet runways), along with the presence of carbon brake dust and minor hydraulic fluid seepage that attracts dirt. Also, all the metal surfaces are usually coated with a corrosion preventative treatment such as AVOX30 that is typically a dingy orange color.

It’s not a pretty place.

Edited January 2, 2023 by JRBarrett

[Ricardo41 5,954]

47 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

These have been "issues" since the addon launched.

As someone else who actually RTFM already pointed out, SimBrief is there. YOU may not like the exact mechanism, but at least don't lie, or if not lying, then at least RTFM. Which kinda brings us back to the same place, don't it... 😉

All I can say is don't even EVER bother checking out that OTHER "piece of coal", the Mad Dog...

The "low rez" textures have also been there since launch - they were highlighted in the initial pre-release review stream.

And they're in such incredibly obscure locations that it's quite reasonable to drop this one in the Rivet Counter circular file.

I mean, if that kinda stuff bugs you so much, i can't imagine that you were simming before MSFS. SMH...

So the only actual thing you've got to hang a hat on is the EFB, and the only thing there is the unsatisfactory timing. And unsat timing is something that PMDG (and many other developers) are famous for...

I'm not going to defend them there because, as I've stated, it's something they could've and should've created a drop in/placeholder tablet with minimal functionality. So it seems their Vision is getting in the way of their Progress on this one.

But again, if all THAT is enough to put you off flying an addon, AND it existed since the beginning, then bad on you for not recognizing your own limitations during pre-purchase Caveat Emptor.

I explained exactly what I meant by simbrief integration, so stop twisting my words. And you consider the area around the cabin, the galley, etc. "obscure locations"?

[JYW 2,984]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

The PMDG 738 is really easy on performance for what it does, and if adding a few lower res textures in places I have yet to inspect helps in that regard it's okay by me. 

Amen.

Regardless how good the Fenix may be, for me it was an utterly wasted £50 because - as a TrackIR user - I cannot "do" 20 FPS in situations where the PMDG gives me 45 FPS.

Before anyone suggests I have a 'potato' system and that that is not Fenix's fault - I'll say again, 45 FPS steady and smooth in the PMDG 737s, in the same situations and settings where I struggle to maintain a stuttery 20 FPS in the Fenix.    

Edited January 2, 2023 by JYW

[Jazz 1,046]

4 minutes ago, JYW said:

Amen.

Regardless how good the Fenix may be, for me it was an utterly wasted £50 because - as a TrackIR user - I cannot "do" 20 FPS in situations where the PMDG gives me 45 FPS.

Before anyone suggests I have a 'potato' system and that, that is not Fenix's fault - I'll say again, 45 FPS steady and smooth in PMDG, in the same situations and settings where I struggle to maintain a stuttery 20 FPS in the Fenix.    

May I ask what your system specs are and what kind of scenery and settings you run?

The Fenix is 2nd on my list of next buys but if it's performs that badly I may pause to consider.

[abennett 172]

53 minutes ago, JYW said:

Regardless how good the Fenix may be, for me it was an utterly wasted £50 because - as a TrackIR user - I cannot "do" 20 FPS in situations where the PMDG gives me 45 FPS.

I would love to fly the Fenix but also the FPS is just so bad compared to the PMDG it is just not worth it, and I'm on a 5800X3D which some say is the best CPU for MSFS. 

The managed descent in the Fenix is also pretty unreliable, it cannot cope with changing speed constraints, frequently the path is incorrect, decel in the wrong place, the path will change when going to selected speed when if this is the same as managed speed it should stay the same, it doesn't give enough time to slow to a speed constraint, if there are no altitude constraints it should be able to do this perfectly as there are no other factors determining when in can shallow the decent to slow, but still it will burst these constraints, same with the 250/FL100, if there are no constraints before this it can slow down in enough time, but still smashes through it.

 

These and the poor performance really make it not enjoyable for me to fly such a shame.

[F737MAX 5,613]

4 minutes ago, abennett said:

I would love to fly the Fenix but also the FPS is just so bad compared to the PMDG it is just not worth it, and I'm on a 5800X3D which some say is the best CPU for MSFS. 

Huh?

What else are you running and what are your settings choices? Locked at 30 FPS using the Fenix A320 in all but the most demanding scenarios.

Only iniBuilds EGLL + Orbx London Cityscape and FSDT KORD + DD Chicago Landmarks, both using a lot of AI traffic cause a drop below 30 FPS. Using the 5800X3D, 3080 Ti and an ultrawide 1440p monitor. Even then Chicago remains smooth.

[Stearmandriver 2,303]

7 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

It's just (another) indication of how PMDG seems to be "stuck" in the old ways.

It's more an indication of simmers not taking the time to understand how the sim works, how selling products for the sim works, and why other add-ons can do things like native simbrief integration but PMDG doesn't (yet).

Remember that the Fenix (and all these other add-ons folks are comparing PMDG to) run custom code external to the sim.  Doing this allows a dev to work around sim limits.  However, you cannot run external code if you intend for your product to be used on Xbox ( and I believe if you wanted it in the Marketplace at all until recently.)

PMDG has been clear from the beginning that they intended to sell their products on the Marketplace and for every platform.  This is obviously just smart business.  This also obviously places limitations on them that other, less ambitious devs do not have. 

PMDG has been one of the driving forces behind getting many of these limitations lifted from the base sim over time, benefiting us all, even if you'll never use a Boeing in the sim.  They are the reason that HTTP access has now been unlocked for WASM modules, allowing them (and all other devs) to incorporate native simbrief access without external code, for instance.

The idea that the developer driving improvements in an entire sim platform is "stuck in the old ways" doesn't quite track, if you understand why things are the way they are.  😉

[abennett 172]

20 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Huh?

What else are you running and what are your settings choices? Locked at 30 FPS using the Fenix A320 in all but the most demanding scenarios.

Only iniBuilds EGLL + Orbx London Cityscape and FSDT KORD + DD Chicago Landmarks, both using a lot of AI traffic cause a drop below 30 FPS. Using the 5800X3D, 3080 Ti and an ultrawide 1440p monitor. Even then Chicago remains smooth.

All ULTRA , 1440p standard widescreen, inibuilds EGLL is major stutter when panning the camera. I only have a 3070 but still seeing main thread limited in places like EGLL. DD KEWR is an absolute no go.