2 minutes ago, chapstick said:

The big thing that's missing right now is takeoff and landing performance data. There are plenty available online, but it should really be included with the product as it was with the P3D version. 

Ah ok, presumably the PMDG FMC can give Vref though? It’s more for the take off speeds like V1 VR V2 etc? This information could easily be in simple table form where you just go in with your weight and winds etc and read off your v speeds for that airport? 

I used to have to do that irl on older Boeings, there was a take off performance folder and the F/O would work out the T/O performance then present the folder to the captain to check and then we’d bug the speeds V1 VR and plus 40 and 80 on the ASI and then set V2 on the AFDS. 
 

Now we do the performance on an efb, check it and send it to the FMC, it’s far better.  What you do miss is an appreciation of how close you are to performance limits you might get from using tables though. 

36 minutes ago, Gstove said:

As an aside what’s the big want for an efb/tablet on the 737? 

In the game,  Is it just an easy way to control things outside the aircraft like during the turnaround? I think there’s one on the milviz aircraft and its mainly for messing about with things like how many passengers you can see or if the fuel tanks weather radar  are visible or if the cowling is open/closed.

IRL most 737s, if they have an efb at all, will likely just be for some charts and maybe the manuals and performance calculations etc. 

 

Will the PMDG have moving map on the tablet with navigraph type integration? That would be fun and v useful. 

Personally, I want it for VR. I do prioritize things like navdata formats and RF legs over it at the end of the day, but I currently have to mess around with 2 or 3 VR in-game panels to view charts and OFP and sometimes other stuff like ETOPS/ORCA checklists and while it gets the job done, I find it utterly annoying and clunky. It's much more convenient in the Fenix e.g. and I'm actually faster in going through the documents to view data to look things up and charts in the EFB are easier to use in VR than the Navigraph in-game panel. There is also no performance calculation other than a third party tool for takeoff I use that I can't see in VR.

Another thing is, like @chapstick mentioned, it's a part of the current product and has been in previous products so there really should be one, even if not the most important part.

Edit: I'm not sure about a moving map but it will have Navigraph Charts.

17 minutes ago, Gstove said:

Now we do the performance on an efb, check it and send it to the FMC, it’s far better.

I think you just answered your own question. 😄Looking through tables and documents that many don't even have to begin with is not what I would call simple. The FMC also won't give you your assumed temp and/or derate or any sort of landing distance check.

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Nixoq

Thanks! Looking forwards to checking it out on the Xbox when it arrives. 
 

Are most people here buying a couple of 737s? 
 

I’ll probably hang on for a max tbh but might get tempted by an -800 in a sale or something. 
 

Great to see all the fantastic content like PMDG aircraft on the console though, I never dreamed the Xbox content would be so good and well supported by MS/asobo and the devs. 
 

I think Jorg thought the Xbox would mainly be a gateway into flightsim and we’d all migrate onto PC and not buy much content etc but the Xbox has become a huge market itself, especially the revered group of new pro FS pilots - the controller using couch pilots! 
 

All we need now is some kind of working external moving map like navigraph/littlenavmap and an easier way of downloading .pln files for flights. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Gstove
Praise for PMDG

22 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

think you just answered your own question. 😄Looking through tables and documents that many don't even have to begin with is not what I would call simple

Yeah it was a bit of a faff doing performance from paper tables when I think back and the folder we used was huge, probably not ideal nowadays especially if you’re trying to fly in VR. 
 

Is anyone using the official Boeing OPT app for B737 take off/ landing performance?

Does it translate to reasonable data that can be used in the sim? 

I know what the issue is....people need to get off the internet and stop whining about everything. Seriously. Again, worse than my toddler sometimes.

Stearmandriver, I agree and have no issues with LNAV or VNAV in either of my PMDG 737's and fly them regularly.

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Sonosusto

16 minutes ago, Gstove said:

Is anyone using the official Boeing OPT app for B737 take off/ landing performance?

Does it translate to reasonable data that can be used in the sim? 

Not using it but the EFBs on PMDG's P3D products simulate the Boeing EFB and perf tool and maybe they have the actual Boeing data through their license agreements with Boeing, but not sure if Boeing would allow that. In any case, PMDG's perf calculations are very close to the "real" data AFAIK and I don't think using the official Boeing tool would make you see any real difference.

9 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

Not using it but the EFBs on PMDG's P3D products simulate the Boeing EFB and perf tool and maybe they have the actual Boeing data through their license agreements with Boeing, but not sure if Boeing would allow that. In any case, PMDG's perf calculations are very close to the "real" data AFAIK and I don't think using the official Boeing tool would make you see any real difference.

If they don’t have the real data I suppose someone could just do lots of calculations on the Boeing OPT app and pass on the results? It wouldn't be super accurate but would likely be good enough for the sim. 
 

Having very accurate data would be difficult as IRL the Boeing data is different for each aircraft in your fleet and I guess the PMDG data must be a bit more generic? 
 

I’ve been involved in some Boeing products in flight sims and seen a developer ask pilots from different airlines for performance calculations on the same type but the results are always a bit different due to different configurations and engine ratings and all sorts of variables. My brother and I used to fly the same Boeing for different airlines and I remember one day checking out our perspective performance calculations on the same airport and weather inputs. It was quite surprising the differences. 

Either way I hope you get the EFB for the 737 soon and PMDG sort out the livery thing so it appears on the Xbox soon also. 

45 minutes ago, Gstove said:

If they don’t have the real data I suppose someone could just do lots of calculations on the Boeing OPT app and pass on the results? It wouldn't be super accurate but would likely be good enough for the sim. 
 

Having very accurate data would be difficult as IRL the Boeing data is different for each aircraft in your fleet and I guess the PMDG data must be a bit more generic?

I'm not sure but I seem to recall PMDG saying something about getting Boeing data for the perf calculations in P3D, but I can't be sure if that meant data straight from Boeing or an approach like you described. I don't know how they do it but my guess is they get one airframe or the default data from Boeing and use the same data for all the 737-800s for example. There is no difference between liveries in the sim, it's basically the same aircraft with the same weights, etc. just with different paint, although some of the configuration options you can choose in the PMDG should make a difference like SFP, for example.

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Nixoq

Genuine comment and question here… reading this thread it’s starting to turn into two categories:

1) Devs vs. customers

2) Folks who think PMDG has done fine at keeping the community updated and others who disagree.

As a long standing customer of PMDG and someone who openly has disagreed with how communication has been delivered lately, my question is this… at what point are we allowed to say anything? Reading some of these replies it would imply that as a customer I’m expected to sit down, shut up, and like it or leave because we are not allowed to have any input on what we think is going right or wrong.

I’ll go back to my earlier comment in this thread… no one is here with pitch forks. No one is threatening to stone anyone. The damned if you do or damned if you don’t motto is an overly used phrase here and folks love to use it when they feel like they are threatened. Here’s the hard facts… PMDG is making money hand over fist. Let’s stop the dramatics here and making it sound like chicken little simply because folks disagree with how they communicate. Maybe, just maybe…. PMDG could actually improve somewhere and this might be it. Who would’ve thought a company could do better on something?
 

With all of that said, I will continue supporting PMDG and waiting for ever how long it takes to get the tablet, T7, or Queen, but it’s because they make good products and as long as I continue funding their products and making them money, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that I or anyone be able to provide constructive feedback. I’m not making demands, just providing feedback to my observations. They’re a good company and they’ve done alot for the community, but improvement is not a bad thing.

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Keirtt

4 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

The maddog and JF are prime examples of similar situations to PMDG

Similar perhaps but probably not identical. As noted in many posts, PMDG has announced support for their its products on both PCs and Xbox consoles. This has apparently created a series of speedbumps that are not present for those aircraft designed to operate in the Windows environment only. FBW and Fenix have not been released even on the Marketplace for that matter, and I recall reading somewhere that they won't be. I can find no such information for JF or Maddog, fine as those products might be. From the get-go PMDG has been clear in stating that they would only move forward with the EFB when they were sure it would work on both the PC and console.

In fairness, one does need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. I stand in awe of all the developers of the amazing high fidelity aircraft we have available in MSFS. Having said that, I can also understand why PMDG has committed to make its products available on late model Xbox consoles, of which almost 20 million have been sold. Successful release of those aircraft for such a massive market would represent a turning point in the history of desktop flight simulation ensuring its viability for a generation to come. Credit where credit is due.

49 minutes ago, Keirtt said:

Genuine comment and question here… reading this thread it’s starting to turn into two categories:

1) Devs vs. customers

2) Folks who think PMDG has done fine at keeping the community and others who disagree.

As a long standing customer of PMDG and someone who openly has disagreed with how communication has been delivered lately, my question is this… at what point are we allowed to say anything? Reading some of these replies it would imply that as a customer I’m expected to sit down, shut up, and like it or leave because we are not allowed to have any input on what we think is going right or wrong.

I’ll go back to my earlier comment in this thread… no one is here with pitch forks. No one is threatening to stone anyone. The damned if you do or damned if you don’t motto is an overly used phrase here and folks love to use it when they feel like they are threatened. Here’s the hard facts… PMDG is making money hand over fist. Let’s stop the dramatics here and making it sound like chicken little simply because folks disagree with how they communicate. Maybe, just maybe…. PMDG could actually improve somewhere and this might be it. Who would’ve thought a company could do better on something?
 

With all of that said, I will continue supporting PMDG and waiting for ever how long it takes to get the tablet, T7, or Queen, but it’s because they make good products and as long as I continue funding their products and making them money, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that I or anyone be able to provide constructive feedback. I’m not making demands, just providing feedback to my observations. They’re a good company and they’ve done alot for the community, but improvement is not a bad thing.

I noticed  on the PMDG forum where the update was announced, the reaction is overwhelming positive, unlike what you see here on Avsim. 

Edited May 1, 20233 yr by Bobsk8

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I noticed  on the PMDG forum where the update was announced, the reaction is overwhelming positive, unlike what you see here on Avsim. 

That's because you'll get banned for harsher criticism (I've got banned once for implying that releasing the -700 before the -800 was to maximize profits... go figure); like about half of the people in this thread have said things that would probably get them a ban over there.

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I noticed  on the PMDG forum where the update was announced, the reaction is overwhelming positive, unlike what you see here on Avsim. 

I don't think anything here is super negative though... there's obviously a difference of opinions and I think folks (myself included) are more inclined to defend our opportunity to voice some discontent where others would like us to simply just be quiet. That's where I think the bulk of the argument is and it's bleeding through to appear as though the masses absolutely despise PMDG. That's just not the case. I love the company. Love their products and I jokingly tell people it's like an iPhone, it just works! (Sorry android fans haha). But that doesn't mean they can't do better with their communication, more specifically with the ongoing teasing of "until next month" that we see each time.

6 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

That's because you'll get banned for harsher criticism (I've got banned once for implying that releasing the -700 before the -800 was to maximize profits... go figure); like about half of the people in this thread have said things that would probably get them a ban over there.

I have posted critical comments about  the DC6, many times, and never got banned, or had a post deleted. 

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have posted critical comments about  the DC6, many times, and never got banned, or had a post deleted. 

Maybe the difference is that you did not critisise PMDG or RSR himself, I don't know.