1 hour ago, Nixoq said:

At $3500 for something most people still don't have any reason to use? No, don't think so.

since you seem to have missed it

better than the VarjoXR, one of the best selling XR headsets

the VarjoXR is €6495 and

Requires a Varjo subscription starting at €1495 annually.

And a very high end PC and GPU.

$3500 is literally cheap at twice the price. You are just not the target audience (yet).

But I'm pretty sure you will be once you pop into an apple store and try it for yourself.

Edited June 7, 20232 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

So unlike everyone else you wont be upgrading from the VarjoXR then?

https://varjo.com/products/xr-3/

No, I don’t intend to upgrade anything in the near future other than a new kayak.

Perhaps in three years or so a new combat flight sim might pique my interest in online formation flying again but only in VR and only with a device that I don’t associate with Jacque Cousteau.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

You are just not the target audience (yet).

That's literally my point...

51 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

That's literally my point...

And mine is

https://www.x-plane.com/2023/05/whats-new-in-x-plane-12-05-and-12-06-short-term-roadmap/

The Varjo will Just Work™️ in X-Plane 12.06 when OpenXR is enabled. 

 

On 6/7/2023 at 7:35 PM, Nixoq said:

At $3500 for something most people still don't have any reason to use? No, don't think so.

This thing isn't intended for Average Joes who use their Apples for menial tasks like e-mails, documents, gaming or similar, but for professionals who use the Apple ecosystem for CAD, interior design, or other creativity demanding tasks. This is exactly the audience who will jump at a seamlessly integrated VR solution, even if it's $3500 (which can be tax deducted as a necessary investment anyway).

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Apple, but I respect their "all in one approach". Even more so since the in-house and surprisingly good M series CPUs. While horribly expensive, their devices just work (TM).

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by Bjoern

On 6/6/2023 at 8:07 PM, mSparks said:

There are many reasons $10,000 macs are outselling even cheap windows desktops, I would recommend taking some time to consider what they are

 

On 6/7/2023 at 3:23 AM, mSparks said:

Apple have been the largest retailer of personal computers by volume and revenue since pretty much the launch of the M1.

You do realize that current apple personal computer sales represent less than 15% of personal computer shipments.

Maybe if you keep rephrasing you MIGHT come up with a true statement.

2 hours ago, somiller said:

 

Maybe if you keep rephrasing you MIGHT come up with a true statement.

rephrasing; different ways of saying the same thing.

I think if you actually tried to find even a single source to back up the assertion it is not true, you will actually find that Apple silicon is at the top of every best seller list in the last 3 years.

Except for mobile phones, which is now huwai or samsung depending upon if the list counts sales in Asia.

Or to put it yet another way

Intel Corporation

NASDAQ: INTC

31.82 USD -23.29 (-42.26%)past 5 years

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by mSparks

On 6/8/2023 at 6:40 PM, mSparks said:

I think if you actually tried to find even a single source to back up the assertion it is not true, you will actually find that Apple silicon is at the top of every best seller list in the last 3 years.

Do you mean like this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/576473/united-states-quarterly-pc-shipment-share-apple/

I have had a while to think about this. Long term VR user here, and I have 5 headsets from different makers. 

My opinion is that this is not suited to VR flying anymore than another headset available now. Sure, it may have great visuals but the compromises are also there. 

First - where will XPlane be installed? This to me is the number one question. Is it on the headset? Nothing was mentioned about storage size. I don't believe installing XPlane on the headset will be possible, or if it is optimal. 10s of GBs. And then what about add ons like airports and ortho scenery. 

Second - if this means XPlane on another device how are they connected (the headset and computer)? Wired/wireless? And this is the the second most important question because if it is wireless, then the advantages of the 4K screens are completely defeated. You cannot stream that amount of data over wireless. So you would have to reduce something, either resolution or framerate. 

And if it is wired (which doesn't seem to be the case), what type of wired? I did not see anything to indicate a wired connection to a computer. Driving 4k displays at native resolution would need displayport. 

Another small point - how does one operate rudders? If Xplane is installed on the headset, how are the rudders connected? 

I am not interested in talking about performance of mac vs PC. Everyone has their own level of what is acceptable in terms of frame rate. However I am dubious that the M2 can deliver 90fps to the two 4k screens. If you are a PC owner are you going to be able to stream/connect via cable to this headset?

So my opinion is that yes, this headset does look to be cutting edge. But it suffers exactly the same type of compromises as the alternatives. Great for some stuff, not for others. 


 

1 hour ago, Geoffery said:

First - where will XPlane be installed?

First, thanks for dragging it back on topic.

My hot take for how this would/should work - which actually hasn't changed from before the announcement.

"both", I think it would function as a "visionOS" application which does all the upper body interaction (has "highly accurate hand and arm tracking") and display.

They confirmed "wireless eGPU" functionality with the look at your mac and use applications on it.

and a macOS application that has hard wired any additional hardware - e.g. rudder pedals and hands all the drawing over to the visionOS application.

1 hour ago, Geoffery said:

wireless, then the advantages of the 4K screens are completely defeated.

not really, because the headset is running its own operating system, so you dont have to stream video to it, it can just take the models and other data and do the rest itself, wifi6 is faster than most SDDs (9.6 Gbps)

1 hour ago, Geoffery said:

I am not interested in talking about performance of mac vs PC.

kinda. It matters for people thinking in Intel/nvidia terms vs what Apple pulled together with M1, M2 and now R1

its rightly very hard to believe that Apple have crammed performance that exceeds that of an Intel 12900K and Nvidia RTX4090 into this headset, but by the numbers that is close to what is in there..... only instead of drawing ~1KW and heating your house, it draws a few tens of watts and can run on a battery pack half the size of a pack of smokes for 2 hours.

1 hour ago, Geoffery said:

not suited to VR flying anymore than another headset available now

it is more capable than the VarjoXR, the current go to for no expense spared flight sim XR.

1 hour ago, Geoffery said:

But it suffers exactly the same type of compromises as the alternatives. Great for some stuff, not for others. 

a wireless eGPU with more umpf than most peoples PCs, not much bigger than a mobile phone has been the key thing missing from all the alternatives, this completely changes that game, the quest went some way to addressing that, but the only way to get video into it is directly streaming video, which sux.

11 hours ago, somiller said:

Do you mean like this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/576473/united-states-quarterly-pc-shipment-share-apple/

The truth of which is clearly demonstrated by Apples US revenue being 3 to 4 times ($37bln 2023Q1) that of Lenovo's global revenue ($12.6bln 2023Q1)

 

Some manufactures are pulling out of VR hardware it`s not a mainstream product, most are sold to companies for research projects.

1 hour ago, G-RFRY said:

it`s not a mainstream product

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/05/psvr2-sales-at-600000-six-weeks-after-launch-sony-confirms

Edited June 10, 20232 yr by mSparks

Yes and companies are the biggest users of VR for training and design. the petro chem industry use them for safety training the cost is not a problem.