3 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

"If your opinion is otherwise - you are welcome to sit back and give him the opportunity to prove himself with a clean, PMDG slate".

  

A perfect banter for a hot August afternoon 😆

Contrary to the general feeling, I like the way RR is writing his pieces. The guy forgot to be stupid.

Now, reading this, it sounds like he acknowledges that MK comes aboard with a slate which is, well, not so clean . Warning shot across the bow 😇 ?

43 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

A perfect banter for a hot August afternoon 😆

Contrary to the general feeling, I like the way RR is writing his pieces. The guy forgot to be stupid.

Now, reading this, it sounds like he acknowledges that MK comes aboard with a slate which is, well, not so clean . Warning shot across the bow 😇 ?

Yes.  I don't have a problem with RR.  While his statements can sometimes produce a lot more words than useful information, I don't believe he has ever set out to be rude to anyone.

And I know there is a lot of noise about the EFB, but the 737 is perfectly usable without it, and without PMDG, we wouldn't have a decent 737 in the sim. 

I mean, who else would be doing one?  (please don't mention iFly people! . I had it in FSX and it was just about alright.)

 

Edited August 9, 20232 yr by bobcat999

18 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

In which way not mincing words is a quality for a vendor after he has sold his product escapes me. What the user expects is honesty and a little empathy.  It comes with the price IMO.

On a related matter can you  confirm  that you pay for all the products you review as a business or do you get them free ? 

"Customers" nowadays tend to have this funny idea that they can be as toxic as they like to developers, but developers need to always treat them like kings no matter what. The flight simulation community in particular has a giant problem with toxicity (as it naturally encourages knowitalls), and seeing some developers fire back is absolutely refreshing. 

To answer your completely unrelated question, if you actually had read any of my reviews, you'd know that the answer to your question is openly disclosed in every single one of them. 

Review copies are work tools. If you work as a professional journalist for any media outlet that makes you buy your own review copies, you oughta find a better employer who doesn't take advantage of you. 

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by Abriael

6 hours ago, Abriael said:

"Customers" nowadays tend to have this funny idea that they can be as toxic as they like to developers, but developers need to always treat them like kings no matter what. The flight simulation community in particular has a giant problem with toxicity (as it naturally encourages knowitalls), and seeing some developers fire back is absolutely refreshing. 

To answer your completely unrelated question, if you actually had read any of my reviews, you'd know that the answer to your question is openly disclosed in every single one of them. 

Review copies are work tools. If you work as a professional journalist for any media outlet that makes you buy your own review copies, you oughta find a better employer who doesn't take advantage of you. 

In a nutshell,  you try to earn your living catering to people you despise, come to Avsim to tell them you do and grovel to developers to get free copies. How nice.

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by Dominique_K

Judging by the latest news and the PMDG livery release farce on marketplace.

 

 I predict the EFB will arrive next year and you’ll not only have to pay for it but you’ll have to buy each EFB function individually due to ‘minimum price’ or ‘package size’ or some other nonsense and kok will tell you to just deal with it, if/when you complain on the forums. 

 

12 hours ago, Abriael said:

"Customers" nowadays tend to have this funny idea that they can be as toxic as they like to developers, but developers need to always treat them like kings no matter what.

You obviously forgot we are talking about Aerosoft and Kok. In reality it was:
A customer notified about a bug or demanded it should finally be fixed after 4 years, and Kok et al. told him a) other customers won‘t notice this bug anyway, b) this would make other customers confused because they are completely word not allowed of how an aircraft works, or c) the thread was closed.
Also your moral outburst is invain anyway (although I, too, appreciate a civilized behaviour from human beings), because it‘s a business and customers don‘t have to care about how they approach developers, while devs have to because they want to sell. So this „funny idea“ is actually totally true, not in a moral sense, but certainly in an economic sense. And that‘s what the customer-developer relation is all about.

31 minutes ago, g-liner said:

I predict the EFB will arrive next year and you’ll not only have to pay for it but you’ll have to buy each EFB function individually due to ‘minimum price’ or ‘package size’ or some other nonsense and kok will tell you to just deal with it, if/when you complain on the forums.

What's the purpose of posts like these? None of that is going to happen and they've said already it's free to those who own the 737.

No need to create more drama than we already have.

...

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by threegreen

14 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

In a nutshell,  you try to earn your living catering to people you despise, come to Avsim to tell them you do and grovel to developers to get free copies. How nice.

Oh don't worry. I don't "try" to earn my living. I earn my living perfectly well and have for over 20 years. I also don't certainly despise the flight simulation community as a whole (otherwise I wouldn't work on it as hard as I do). Only those that make it look bad by behaving like entitled adolescents throwing tantrums at developers. Only a blind person or someone incapable of introspection would ignore the fact that many within the flight simulation community hve a big issue with treating developers like dirt, just as bad as these "normal" gamers that they often label as inferior. There's a reason why more and more developers have stopped mincing words as of late. 

Also lol at "free copies." If you think after 20+ years of doing this, being given even the most expensive aircraft available for MSFS for the purpose of doing work actually impresses me in any shape or form, you really don't get how this works. Considering the time it takes to research even the most basic add-on like an airport and write a review, I'd be better off simply covering some more Call of Duty and using the money I earn to buy the add-on (approximately 8 times over and still having money to spare) and then fly it at my leisure instead of spending my nights testing it for work.  

But hey, thanks for being entirely predictable and proving my point. If hearing that someone thinks positively about a developer you don't like pushes you into a full fledged and completely unrelated personal attack, you've shown exactly what I'm talking about.

4 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

You obviously forgot we are talking about Aerosoft and Kok. In reality it was:
A customer notified about a bug or demanded it should finally be fixed after 4 years, and Kok et al. told him a) other customers won‘t notice this bug anyway, b) this would make other customers confused because they are completely word not allowed of how an aircraft works, or c) the thread was closed.
Also your moral outburst is invain anyway (although I, too, appreciate a civilized behaviour from human beings), because it‘s a business and customers don‘t have to care about how they approach developers, while devs have to because they want to sell. So this „funny idea“ is actually totally true, not in a moral sense, but certainly in an economic sense. And that‘s what the customer-developer relation is all about.

Nope. The customer-developer relation isn't all about throwing all sorts of abuse and tantrums at developers just because you can and because you're a "customer." Incidentally, the description you make of the situation on Aerosoft's forums is much more one-sided than it actually is in reality. 

You don't "have" to care about the way you approach anyone, but you should, if you want to be taken seriously.

One can be a respectable customer (and behave like a civil human being to another human being) or a Karen. The choice is theirs, I suppose, but they shouldn't expect approval if they behave like a Karen, at least not from me. Try going to a physical store and behave like many do on Aerosoft's forums (or the social media outlets of many other developers, including the official MSFS forums) and let me know how it works for you. Just don't be surprised if security gets involved. 

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by Abriael

...every Story (Thread) needs a villain.😉

4 minutes ago, TomCYYZ said:

...every Story (Thread) needs a villain.😉

The villain is very easy to spot. It is the other guy. Its like beauty, in the eye of the beholder 😁.

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

The villain is very easy to spot. It is the other guy. Its like beauty, in the eye of the beholder 😁.

"The guilty dog barks the loudest" 😂

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by Abriael

He has a point. Let's not pretend that many in the community don't like to create drama, exaggerate or cry foul at every opportunity and lose sight of the line between justified und unjustified criticism. It's like a kinder garden at times, but the adult version.

 Are the mods ok with this super speculative thread ? Is there anything of substance left to be added ( like an actual date or even a reasonably narrow approximation) ?

I personally don't think so. Anyone with actual information regarding the PMDG 777 release date want to post something ?

Edited August 10, 20232 yr by Maxis

They would have a few years ago.

But since PMDG became self-proclaimed gods, and flew the nest creating their own forums, Avsim members appear to be "allowed" to criticise them.

You all know I'm right ....

One used to have to post on Reddit about PMDG. And OMG... there's a LOT of posts over there... none of them complimentary.

As for Aersoft, you had no choice but to discuss issues on Reddit, as every thread created that is essentially a complaint, rapidly got shut down.

Edited September 3, 20232 yr by Gabe777